Flight Officer Advanced Promotions

[RiverAux]

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.

Well, we make insignia for all sorts of grades where members only hold them for a matter of months.  For example, all the cadet enlisted and 2nd Lts. 

[BrandonKea]

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.

Well, we make insignia for all sorts of grades where members only hold them for a matter of months.  For example, all the cadet enlisted and 2nd Lts. 

There's a much much higher quantity of Cadet Enlisted and 2d Lt's than there are Flight Officers though.

[Hawk200]

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.

Well, we make insignia for all sorts of grades where members only hold them for a matter of months.  For example, all the cadet enlisted and 2nd Lts. 

There's a much much higher quantity of Cadet Enlisted and 2d Lt's than there are Flight Officers though.

Flight officers spend more time in most of their grades than an average cadet. A member joining as a senior at 18 who progressed normally could wear TFO for over two years (hypothetically, more like a little under considering how long some paperwork takes to get processed).

Second, for most ranks, everything is temporary. Deleting rank for the reasoning of "temporary" makes little sense.

It's a little inappropriate to have a rank without an insignia. This ain't the the Navy.

[BrandonKea]

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.

Well, we make insignia for all sorts of grades where members only hold them for a matter of months.  For example, all the cadet enlisted and 2nd Lts. 

There's a much much higher quantity of Cadet Enlisted and 2d Lt's than there are Flight Officers though.

Flight officers spend more time in most of their grades than an average cadet. A member joining as a senior at 18 who progressed normally could wear TFO for over two years (hypothetically, more like a little under considering how long some paperwork takes to get processed).

Second, for most ranks, everything is temporary. Deleting rank for the reasoning of "temporary" makes little sense.

It's a little inappropriate to have a rank without an insignia. This ain't the the Navy.

You're right, Flight Officers will spend a lot of time in their grade, but there aren't enough Flight Officers to make the argument to have Vanguard design, produce, stock and ship all sorts of other inisgnia.

And yes, most grade IS temporary, but again, there's a quantity issue here.


...did I mention quantity...

[Spike]

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.

It is dumb that they are not being made.  They need to make FO insignia that coresponds to every other grade insignia produced (plastic encased etc.)

Why cant new Senior Members start at the same page no matter what age?  I don't care if you are 80 or 18....if you join as a new member then you spend 6 months as a SMWOG, then are eligible for 2nd Lt.  As far as the reasoning that we can't do that because of insurance issues (vans etc.) is ridiculous.  If that were the case the easiest way to remedy that would be to write the regulations to prohibit anyone NOT 21 from driving vans....etc. 

[BrandonKea]

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.

It is dumb that they are not being made.  They need to make FO insignia that coresponds to every other grade insignia produced (plastic encased etc.)

Why cant new Senior Members start at the same page no matter what age?  I don't care if you are 80 or 18....if you join as a new member then you spend 6 months as a SMWOG, then are eligible for 2nd Lt.  As far as the reasoning that we can't do that because of insurance issues (vans etc.) is ridiculous.  If that were the case the easiest way to remedy that would be to write the regulations to prohibit anyone NOT 21 from driving vans....etc.

IIRC the Air Force did not want 18 year olds as CAP Officers...

[Spike]

^ Really.  Can you provide a source for this.....because it seems awfully untrue. 

[BillB]

When you get down to it, every grade in CAP from Cadet airman up except MGen is temporary. The person can be promoted to next higher grade. If the problem is the FO stripes on the epaulet sleeves, change them to something more recognizable.

[Major Carrales]

IIRC the Air Force did not want 18 year olds as CAP Officers...

I find that idea to be balderdash.  18 year olds, for the purpose of CAP, are adults.  I believe that they should become 2d Lts...applying USAF standards to CAP this occasion is without logical standing.

They don't want 18 year old Lts, ridiculous.  Give us Congressional Commissions as Auxiliarists and I might subscribe to the idea...but as it stands now I think it is ridiculous since CAP is a totally different animal that the USAF.

[BrandonKea]

IIRC the Air Force did not want 18 year olds as CAP Officers...

I find that idea to be balderdash.  18 year olds, for the purpose of CAP, are adults.  I believe that they should become 2d Lts...applying USAF standards to CAP this occasion is without logical standing.

They don't want 18 year old Lts, ridiculous.  Give us Congressional Commissions as Auxiliarists and I might subscribe to the idea...but as it stands now I think it is ridiculous since CAP is a totally different animal that the USAF.

I don't know of a citation for this, but (and bring out the dogs), it's just what I've heard.)

The CAP is totally different than the USAF, but that doesn't mean we don't listen to what they say.

[BrandonKea]

Also, remember 18 year olds can also be Cadets. So they're not always adults in the eyes of CAP.

[Major Carrales]

My above statements are, of course, mere opinions on the matter.  Still, I expect the USAF to be consistant in their policy towards CAP.

[ßτε]

My guess is that they don't want 21 year old majors rather than not wanting 18 year old lieutenants.

[Major Carrales]

My guess is that they don't want 21 year old majors rather than not wanting 18 year old lieutenants.

Either a CAP Adult member (not Adult member that chooses to remain a CADET, voluntarily, that is a choice to remain in a diminuative role) is a valued asset...or they are not.  That is what I mean by consistancy.

If it is such a "shame" to have a 21 year old Major, then 1) Keep them at 2d Lt until they are 21, 2) deny membership as a SENIOR until such time as they are 21.

Flight Officers, in my experience in my area, are often treated poorly (even less than Cadet Officers) or with the usual "what the heck are you supposed to be?" attitude.  This was the case with a dear friend of mine, of who had served in CAP as a cadet for a considerable time (years enough to Mitchell) and treated like a schmuck by a 2d Lt who had been in CAP 9 months because he was a TFO and the CAP Officer in question would not recognize his Ground Team Leader Qual as "REAL."

In a world where some CAP Officers have never seen a CSU nor identify it as a CAP uniform, it is the case that the Flight Officer is not what it is intended to be.

[SJFedor]

Flight Officers, in my experience in my area, are often treated poorly (even less than Cadet Officers) or with the usual "what the heck are you supposed to be?" attitude.  This was the case with a dear friend of mine, of who had served in CAP as a cadet for a considerable time (years enough to Mitchell) and treated like a schmuck by a 2d Lt who had been in CAP 9 months.

That was my experience with some members as I went through the FO grades. However, once I turned 21 and went from SFO to insta-Captain, it shut them up in short order 

[Major Carrales]

Flight Officers, in my experience in my area, are often treated poorly (even less than Cadet Officers) or with the usual "what the heck are you supposed to be?" attitude.  This was the case with a dear friend of mine, of who had served in CAP as a cadet for a considerable time (years enough to Mitchell) and treated like a schmuck by a 2d Lt who had been in CAP 9 months.

That was my experience with some members as I went through the FO grades. However, once I turned 21 and went from SFO to insta-Captain, it shut them up in short order 

Yes, but I have a fundamental problem with a whole group of CAP members (adults and likely the best trained...in terms of CAP Knowledge and Objectives...group of new SENIOR MEMBERS) having to be treated like "second class citizen" types and people accepting it as a common practice.

[BrandonKea]

I never had any problems with being treated poorly as a TFO, but I was well established as a Cadet Officer and had been treated as [darn] close to a Senior Member as anyone else I knew.

[SJFedor]

Flight Officers, in my experience in my area, are often treated poorly (even less than Cadet Officers) or with the usual "what the heck are you supposed to be?" attitude.  This was the case with a dear friend of mine, of who had served in CAP as a cadet for a considerable time (years enough to Mitchell) and treated like a schmuck by a 2d Lt who had been in CAP 9 months.

That was my experience with some members as I went through the FO grades. However, once I turned 21 and went from SFO to insta-Captain, it shut them up in short order 

Yes, but I have a fundamental problem with a whole group of CAP members (adults and likely the best trained...in terms of CAP Knowledge and Objectives...group of new SENIOR MEMBERS) having to be treated like "second class citizen" types and people accepting it as a common practice.

Oh I fully concur. I hated having the 7-months-in 2d Lt talk down to me like I didn't know what I was doing, when I was wearing 13 ribbons, a set of wings and a GTL badge.

But, I just saluted and executed. Nothing else I could really do. Was it a bit demoralizing? Absolutely. But the people who gave me my orders were people who were not only familiar with my grade structure (because I oriented them to it), but were familiar with myself personally and had trust in me. The only people I really ever had problems with were the new people, the people on power trips, and those who had chronic cranial/rectal inversions.

[Major Carrales]

I never had any problems with being treated poorly as a TFO, but I was well established as a Cadet Officer and had been treated as [darn] close to a Senior Member as anyone else I knew.

That was a testiment to your service to CAP.  But what if you had moved to my Area? 

We should be celebrating our people that are FLIGHT OFFICERS because of thier training and dedication to CAP.  They have used the CADET PROGRAM as "CAPROTC."  We occasionally have these discussions about why CADETS don't transfer over to SENIOR...hummm, I think I have a new argument for the debate.

[BrandonKea]

I never had any problems with being treated poorly as a TFO, but I was well established as a Cadet Officer and had been treated as [darn] close to a Senior Member as anyone else I knew.

That was a testiment to your service to CAP.  But what if you had moved to my Area? 

We should be celebrating our people that are FLIGHT OFFICERS because of thier training and dedication to CAP.  They have used the CADET PROGRAM as "CAPROTC."  We occasionally have these discussions about why CADETS don't transfer over to SENIOR...hummm, I think I have a new argument for the debate.

Well and you also have the fact that not every FO was once a CAP Cadet.

Had I moved to your area, I would not have been afraid to respectfully assert my knowledge and skills in my AOR. Being treated poorly as a FO is a reflection on the people treating FO's poorly, but at some point, you have to stand up and do something about it.