CAP/Police officer members

[Dutchboy]

Can a CAP member , that is a police officer, attend squadron meetings in police uniform (with side arm) ? if so are there limitations or special situations where it is allowed?

[davidsinn]

Can a CAP member , that is a police officer, attend squadron meetings in police uniform (with side arm) ? if so are there limitations or special situations where it is allowed?

Why can't they wear a CAP uniform like every other member?

Sent from my HTC Incredible 2 using Tapatalk

[Eclipse]

CAP members should attend meetings in a CAP uniform, and in nearly all cases are required to.

If the officer is within his home jurisdiction, he may be required to carry, in which case he should do it discreetly within the
requirements of the law, and the situation should probably be discussed quietly with the Unit CC and Wing CC.  The circumstances where
an officer coudl not change into a CAP uniform and carry concealed would be nearly zero.

Any exceptions, etc., should be approved by the Wing CC.

Being an LEO doesn't necessarily change the CAP rules regarding uniforms or firearms, and where law trumps regs, they don't need to
make a big deal about it.

[JeffDG]

CAP members should attend meetings in a CAP uniform, and in nearly all cases are required to.

If the officer is within his home jurisdiction, he may be required to carry, in which case he should do it discreetly within the
requirements of the law, and the situation should probably be discussed quietly with the Unit CC and Wing CC.  The circumstances where
an officer coudl not change into a CAP uniform and carry concealed would be nearly zero.

Any exceptions, etc., should be approved by the Wing CC.

Being an LEO doesn't necessarily change the CAP rules regarding uniforms or firearms, and where law trumps regs, they don't need to
make a big deal about it.

Not only exceptions, but situations where the officer is off-duty and required (by law) to carry need to be approved in writing by the Wing/CC.

[Major Lord]

A number of questions and issues arise from your question. The first is; Must a member attend a meeting in CAP uniform? The answer to that is, preferably, but not in every instance. On Travis, we have active duty members who attend in USAF uniform, and people swinging back from work who show in civvies, so there is no hard and fast requirement to wear a uniform in every case, except when working with Cadets. In the past,  we have had SP's show up, obviously armed, to check us out, but not members. They have the right to carry on the base anywhere they want for the most part.

The problem hinges on whether they are merely present or "engaged  in an activity" since CAPR 900-3 states ( in part) : "Civil Air Patrol members will not carry, wear, or use firearms, including air guns (pellet or BB) while engaged in Civil Air Patrol activities......"

Unless they have a "mother may I" from the Wing King, contingent upon their agencies requirement to be armed at all times, its unlikely that they would be allowed to be "engaged" in any CAP activities while armed, although this has certainly occured. From a practical standpoint, telling a Police Officer in Uniform, and a marked car, on base with the permission of the Base to be there, that he has to take off his sidearm if he wants to come in and  in any way "engage" in CAP business seems just ridiculous. Having an armed, uniformed police officer actively engaged in a meeting would be....imprudent.

CAP is firearms phobic, and many things about CAPR 900-3 are ill-conceived or in some cases, patently false. For instance, 900-3 says that CAP members,  may not be deputized. Being a CAP member in California does not give you a right to be exempt from lawful orders from a police officer or judge, or exempt you from being conscripted into a posse comitatus , it just means that as soon as you change sides, CAP disowns you. ( The Secretary will disavow you, Mr. Phelps)

Major Lord

[Dutchboy]

I forgot to say, wearing police uniform while on duty, attending CAP meeting performing duties as CAP member.

[davidsinn]

I forgot to say, wearing police uniform while on duty, attending CAP meeting performing duties as CAP member.

Those two are mutually exclusive. He's either on duty as a cop or he's not. If he's on duty as a cop then he should be doing police business. That's what he's paid for.

[EMT-83]

Why?

If the city is allowing him to be there on duty, what's the freakin' problem?

This is allowed in my agency, to the point that cops are allowed to attend church services on duty – in uniform and carrying weapons. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

[Eclipse]

I forgot to say, wearing police uniform while on duty, attending CAP meeting performing duties as CAP member.

No.  100% against CAP regs and likely against the LEA's regs as well.

[NCRblues]

We have a school squadron in the local area. The school has a resource officer assigned to it from the local PD. He stays at the school, has his own office and works with all the clubs and activities at the school. He is also a CAP member, and stops by the class often, in uniform and armed (because he is on duty).

I see no problem here....

[davidsinn]

Why?

If the city is allowing him to be there on duty, what's the freakin' problem?

This is allowed in my agency, to the point that cops are allowed to attend church services on duty – in uniform and carrying weapons. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

Because as a taxpayer I take major exception to the waste of taxdollars. If a cop is on duty I expect them to be out patrolling. That's what he's paid for. As a non government employee I have to work for my pay. A government employee who is paid through my taxes should do the same.

[MIKE]

Wear ... when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

[Eclipse]

We have a school squadron in the local area. The school has a resource officer assigned to it from the local PD. He stays at the school, has his own office and works with all the clubs and activities at the school. He is also a CAP member, and stops by the class often, in uniform and armed (because he is on duty).

I see no problem here....

You're comparing apples and spare tires.

He's on duty, and he's there in his official capacity as a police officer, which means, by definition, he can't be participating in a CAP activity.   

Same goes for situations where one is in the military and the unit meets on base, though in most of those cases, I have told members they need to change before attending a meeting.  Convenience and proximity do not change the rules.

[Woodsy]

We have a few LEO's in our squadron that often attend meetings in their police uniform because they come during their lunch hour, or right before or after their shift where timing would not make changing uniforms reasonable.  I have absolutely no problem with this.  They are a great asset to both CAP and their agency as a liaison and foster a good working relationship between the 2 organizations.

Missions are different.  We have to define that a CAP member serving in a CAP capacity in a CAP uniform can not exert his law enforcement powers at that time.  Example:  an ELT mission on private property where the police would be called to gain access.  That off-duty LEO would have to call one of his fellow LEO's instead of saying "well I'm a cop, let's go on in." 

[Ned]

In my day, I worked for several different police departments in California.  Not one would ever permit me to wear my uniform if I was not actually on duty.  Even if I was on my way to/from the station, I was required to wear a "cover coat" or something similar so that I would not appear to be in uniform.

I am not (currently) a practicing attorney, but I strongly suspect that such policies have a whole lot to do with liability issues for the police agency.  For them (and me, BTW) whether or not I was "on duty" while shopping on my way home or standing around at a community meeting would be critical if something should occur.

Now having said that, obviously I wore my uniform while sitting in restaurants during authorized meal breaks.  But I was "on duty", getting paid,  and subject to call even then. 

Personally, I don't think the world would end if a member-cop who was on duty stopped by the squadron for a few minutes to pick-up or drop off paperwork.  But teaching a class, etc. while in police uniform would seem problematic.

[Flying Pig]

Why dont you ask him yourself?

[Major Lord]

We have a few LEO's in our squadron that often attend meetings in their police uniform because they come during their lunch hour, or right before or after their shift where timing would not make changing uniforms reasonable.  I have absolutely no problem with this.  They are a great asset to both CAP and their agency as a liaison and foster a good working relationship between the 2 organizations.

Missions are different.  We have to define that a CAP member serving in a CAP capacity in a CAP uniform can not exert his law enforcement powers at that time.  Example:  an ELT mission on private property where the police would be called to gain access.  That off-duty LEO would have to call one of his fellow LEO's instead of saying "well I'm a cop, let's go on in."

You might be surprised that private citizens have fewer legal (and departmental)restrictions on say, jumping a fence, searching someone, etc., then say a LEO with jurisdiction in that area. If you think that your neighbors kid stole your stereo and you open his unlocked car and search for it, there is little anyone  can do to you ( they can try to arrest you, or kick your butt, but there is no law that says you have to submit to either of these) If you find it, and seize it, all's well, Try that as an on duty or off duty cop and wait for the sounds of screaming from all sides. If a Police Officer is in a position where he has a duty to act, and does not have his gun because of CAP's irrational phobias, who gets to wear the blame hat? An LEO can't switch his police status off whenever it suits him. In some sense, he "owns it"  it 24 hours a day ( Okay, there are some truly on-duty-only cops, but they can't smoke dope on their day off either)

Major Lord

[Woodsy]

We have a few LEO's in our squadron that often attend meetings in their police uniform because they come during their lunch hour, or right before or after their shift where timing would not make changing uniforms reasonable.  I have absolutely no problem with this.  They are a great asset to both CAP and their agency as a liaison and foster a good working relationship between the 2 organizations.

Missions are different.  We have to define that a CAP member serving in a CAP capacity in a CAP uniform can not exert his law enforcement powers at that time.  Example:  an ELT mission on private property where the police would be called to gain access.  That off-duty LEO would have to call one of his fellow LEO's instead of saying "well I'm a cop, let's go on in."

You might be surprised that private citizens have fewer legal (and departmental)restrictions on say, jumping a fence, searching someone, etc., then say a LEO with jurisdiction in that area. If you think that your neighbors kid stole your stereo and you open his unlocked car and search for it, there is little anyone  can do to you ( they can try to arrest you, or kick your butt, but there is no law that says you have to submit to either of these) If you find it, and seize it, all's well, Try that as an on duty or off duty cop and wait for the sounds of screaming from all sides. If a Police Officer is in a position where he has a duty to act, and does not have his gun because of CAP's irrational phobias, who gets to wear the blame hat? An LEO can't switch his police status off whenever it suits him. In some sense, he "owns it"  it 24 hours a day ( Okay, there are some truly on-duty-only cops, but they can't smoke dope on their day off either)

Major Lord

I understand and agree that emergency situations are different.  But I do believe an off duty LEO can and must "switch off LEO" while on CAP missions for things of the non-emergency nature like the example in my first post.

[weisguy]

In uniform would be allowed if you need to, but the sidearm will not be allowed unless your wing commander signs off on it.

[bflynn]

In uniform would be allowed if you need to, but the sidearm will not be allowed unless your wing commander signs off on it.

You're suggesting that a wing commander can tell a LEO that he cannot enter a certain meeting with a firearm?  I think you overestimate the WC's authority.

It happens quite frequently for us.  I have no problem with it, it's because we have a choice of him being there like that or not being there at all.  We understand.  A CAP meeting is a little bit different than other CAP activities.

[Sapper168]

In the case of squadrons that meet on military instalations, I seem to remember when i was active duty that it was a federal offense to bring a firearm of any kind onto a military base if you were not a member of the armed forces.  Maybe its changed or they give leeway for CAP mambers?

[FlyTiger77]

In the case of squadrons that meet on military instalations, I seem to remember when i was active duty that it was a federal offense to bring a firearm of any kind onto a military base if you were not a member of the armed forces.  Maybe its changed or they give leeway for CAP mambers?

If I recall correctly, civilian police agencies may retain jurisdiction over the geographic area of an installation. As an MP a long time ago, we were told that if the state police wanted to come on the installation, it was their perogative (notwithstanding restricted areas, SCIFs, etc, etc, etc).

[shoresfinest]

those who are flaunting their cap regs over an OFFICER OF THE LAW, have sunk to a new low. There is no showing off, and no cap reg above state or federal law. My uncle died in the line of duty, and was a CAP officer. I hope you see a respect for the uniform they wear, because it has a higher meaning then ours. If they are on duty, then they are right for wearing their uniform.

[EMT-83]

No their uniform does not have a higher meaning than ours, sorry.

Police officers and CAP members have both died in the line of duty, which really has no bearing on the conversation.

Full disclosure, 31 years as dispatcher for the local PD. I'm kinda fond of cops too.

[Eclipse]

Police officers and CAP members have both died in the line of duty, which really has no bearing on the conversation.

None whatsoever.

If they are on duty, then they are right for wearing their uniform.

In the vast majority of cases, if they are on duty, they can't play CAP, and that will be by both our regs and theirs.

[abdsp51]

In the case of squadrons that meet on military instalations, I seem to remember when i was active duty that it was a federal offense to bring a firearm of any kind onto a military base if you were not a member of the armed forces.  Maybe its changed or they give leeway for CAP mambers?

If I recall correctly, civilian police agencies may retain jurisdiction over the geographic area of an installation. As an MP a long time ago, we were told that if the state police wanted to come on the installation, it was their perogative (notwithstanding restricted areas, SCIFs, etc, etc, etc).

This will be entirely based upon the jurisdiction/s on the installation.  If the installation is entirely exclusive jurisdiction local agencies may come on to serve summons and other duties related to civil, family law etc per what is written out in a MOU/MOA.  If there is concurrent or proprietary jurisdiction then the responsibility is shared.  Most installations have a policy that local LEO are not allowed on the installation and to carry unless they are on "Official Business".  This does not apply to federal agencies however and LEOSA does not apply. 

[Private Investigator]

Can a CAP member , that is a police officer, attend squadron meetings in police uniform (with side arm) ? if so are there limitations or special situations where it is allowed?

I never did and I retired after 25+ years as a policeman. It really depends on where you are at.

Because my wife took me to a 'chick flick' and the love interest was a highway patrolman and he was going to all kinds of places in his cruiser and in uniform. I always thought it looked unprofessional for a cop to go bowling in uniform or take the family to Shakeys for a free dinner. JMHO.

Having worked both coasts I can say law enforcement professionalism varies greatly from place to place. BTW, I would like a decaf and a lemon filled donut.   

[Flying Pig]

When I was Deputy Commander for Cadets at Sq 45 at March AFB, I brought my police car on base with all of my weapons, to include all of my SWAT gear and did a 1hr presentation for the cadets.  Department sanctioned and the Deptartment paid me 1hr of overtime to do it because it was a community event.   After my presentation, I stayed and finished out the evening in uniform doing DCC duties.  Afterwards, I drove, unescorted right off base. I made a quick stop and let the gate guard know I was done, he radioed his supervisor to let him know.  He then asked if my department was hiring we talked for about 15 minutes as I gave him some hiring advice, and I was on my way. 

You wont believe this, but I actually allowed cadets to try on my entry vest, hold my M4 (unloaded with a breech block) look through the ACOG and even point the laser at stuff!!!   They even took pictures of each other with the equipment on!

It my unit where I was the SqCC, there were many times I stopped by the unit meeting, in uniform, in a marked patrol car on my way home.  I was "out of service" on the computer.  Not getting paid.  We get take home patrol cars.  Many times I would stay a couple hours AND deal with Sq business!!!  All done with the knowledge of the agency.

So before you start blasting your member, perhaps you should find out the circumstances under which he is attending. 

[Eclipse]

All done with the knowledge of the agency.

The concurrence of the LEA is an issue for the member, but the concurrence of CAP is the issue for CAP.  The fact that the LEA says it's "OK", doesn't make it "OK" with CAP.

The firearms aside, on the CAP side, this is no different than some one at Target expecting to wear their work uniform to CAP activities.

[bflynn]

Is uniform wear required to attend CAP SM meetings?

[Eclipse]

Yes, though some members argue they are not.

Wear ... when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

[bflynn]

I don't think 39-1 dictates that a uniform must be worn at meetings.

I could be wrong, I'm looking now.

[lordmonar]

This is one of those mole hill/mountain "issues".

The world is not going to end if a CAP member does not wear a uniform to a meeting.

It is preferable that you be in a uniform....and sometimes required....but it is better to be there doing your job then not because you don't have time to go home and get your uniform on.

The issue with the gun.

An officer in police uniform at a meeting.....I don't see a problem, not really.

[Eclipse]

An officer in police uniform at a meeting.....I don't see a problem, not really.

Academically it's a discussion where you have to accept the commander's interpretation of Table 1-1.

Practically speaking this occurs 1000 times a week and the world does not end.

[bflynn]

The table Eclipse referenced in 39-1 is talking about when uniforms may be worn.  It is not a table of requirements.  Otherwise, what would a new member do, not attend until they have a uniform?

I commonly see and understand that there are two times when a SM must wear a uniform - when flying in a CAP airplane and when working with cadets.  But these are mostly squadron or wing level pages, not NHQ pages.

[Eclipse]

The table says "wear" not "may wear"...

There are far more times then that - any ES activity requires a uniform.

[bflynn]

The table says "wear" not "may wear"...

There are far more times then that - any ES activity requires a uniform.

Reference?

[Eclipse]

Seriously?

[jeders]

The table says "wear" not "may wear"...

There are far more times then that - any ES activity requires a uniform.

Reference?

CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1. Wearing the CAP Uniform.

The column headings are Wear, Do Not Wear, and Optional. The only time optional is checked is for social functions. That means that from this quote, the uniform WILL be worn.

Wear ... when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

Now as Eclipse has mentioned, in practical reality this particular section is violated regularly. In fact, as a squadron commander I violated it a couple of times myself for purposes of expediency. But we should not accept this as a norm, only as an exception.

The issue with the gun.

An officer in police uniform at a meeting.....I don't see a problem, not really.

This, I think, is the real issue along with the officer being at CAP while "on-duty." If he's there off-duty without his sidearm but in uniform, as long as it's not a regular occurrence, then I don't think anyone will care too much. If, however, he is regularly there acting in a CAP capacity while in his PD uniform and carrying his sidearm, then we have issues. If his schedule places him on duty during CAP meetings, then I would suggest that he take some time off until his schedule changes to where he can attend properly.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah...a cop demo would have been awesome in my blue polo shirt and dockers.

[jeders]

Yeah...a cop demo would have been awesome in my blue polo shirt and dockers.

Well in your case, while doing the demo, you were acting in your police capacity, not your CAP capacity. So that's a little bit of apples and oranges. After the demo, when you put your CAP hat back on, you were technically in violation of regs, but I think that falls more under an acceptable exception. I assume you didn't regularly show up to meetings in your cop uniform with a weapon strapped to your side.

[lordmonar]

This, I think, is the real issue along with the officer being at CAP while "on-duty." If he's there off-duty without his sidearm but in uniform, as long as it's not a regular occurrence, then I don't think anyone will care too much. If, however, he is regularly there acting in a CAP capacity while in his PD uniform and carrying his sidearm, then we have issues. If his schedule places him on duty during CAP meetings, then I would suggest that he take some time off until his schedule changes to where he can attend properly.

I agree.....a lot depends on how he is acting in his "CAP capacity".

If he is atteneding a senior meeting...that is more like a business meeting where they get breifings and announcments or his is at his desk doing paperwork or sitting in some training.......I don't have any problem with that.

If he is working with cadets.....well....then maybe I will care....and I would not let him make it a habbit.

If he is representing CAP to outside customers like at a mission base or at a ememgency managment planning....then absoulutly not.

The problem is that we are not a on size fits all organisation....so one size fits all regulations don't work....that is why we appoint commanders....to make the "right" decisions based on all the facts, regulations, rules, laws and other pertinant data the situation presents.

Like I said.....this is a mole hill/mountain situation that no one here can really make the definitive call...because we don't have all the facts.

We take the regs, the aims and goals of our organisation and the specific situations of our members and we try to make it work.

[Flying Pig]

Numerous times as the CC I was unable to wear a uniform and showed up in civilian clothes with my off duty weapon concealed.  I also had several cop/members (federal agents) who would come to the meetings in civilian clothes on occassion, and they also had their off duty weapons concealed.  Most of the time everyone wore uniforms but sometimes its not possible.  Not leaving my gun at home or in the car.  Attending a meeting regularly in uniform, yes thats a stretch and not needed.  Attending a meeting in civilian clothes, for whatever reason with my off-duty weapon concealed, not an issue.  When I wore my CAP uniform I did not have my gun with me.

[Private Investigator]

When I was Deputy Commander for Cadets at Sq 45 at March AFB, ... DCC duties. 

You wont believe this, but I actually allowed cadets to try on my entry vest, hold my M4 (unloaded with a breech block) look through the ACOG and even point the laser at stuff!!!

So before you start blasting your member, perhaps you should find out the circumstances under which he is attending.

I loved going to schools for career day. Of course going to Watts the week after the L.A. riots was a hoot.

BTW, Deputy Commander for Cadets is CDC not DCC. Its my pet peeve, everyone should learn that in SLS. The only thing sillier is Squadron CO instead of Squadron CC. 

[Spaceman3750]

Squadron CO instead of Squadron CC.

I had one former Army guy call our squadron CC the "company commander" for awhile until I finally broke him of his Army ways .

[abdsp51]

Squadron CO instead of Squadron CC.

I had one former Army guy call our squadron CC the "company commander" for awhile until I finally broke him of his Army ways .

I find it funny how alot of armyisms find their way into a AF organization.

[Ned]

I find it funny how alot of armyisms find their way into a AF organization.

Probably has something to do with the fact that we were an Army organization before we were an Air Force organization.  We are a little bit older than the Air Force itself.

My favorite has always been doing a "report of survey" to account for a lost item.

[Flying Pig]

When I was Deputy Commander for Cadets at Sq 45 at March AFB, ... DCC duties. 

You wont believe this, but I actually allowed cadets to try on my entry vest, hold my M4 (unloaded with a breech block) look through the ACOG and even point the laser at stuff!!!

So before you start blasting your member, perhaps you should find out the circumstances under which he is attending.

I loved going to schools for career day. Of course going to Watts the week after the L.A. riots was a hoot.

BTW, Deputy Commander for Cadets is CDC not DCC. Its my pet peeve, everyone should learn that in SLS. The only thing sillier is Squadron CO instead of Squadron CC.

Amazing how CAP can take Deputy Commander for Cadets and get CDC out of it.

[bosshawk]

Rob: official office symbols do not have to make any sense, just think about your experience in the military and in the SO.

[Flying Pig]

Ahhh...makes sense now

[Spaceman3750]

When I was Deputy Commander for Cadets at Sq 45 at March AFB, ... DCC duties. 

You wont believe this, but I actually allowed cadets to try on my entry vest, hold my M4 (unloaded with a breech block) look through the ACOG and even point the laser at stuff!!!

So before you start blasting your member, perhaps you should find out the circumstances under which he is attending.

I loved going to schools for career day. Of course going to Watts the week after the L.A. riots was a hoot.

BTW, Deputy Commander for Cadets is CDC not DCC. Its my pet peeve, everyone should learn that in SLS. The only thing sillier is Squadron CO instead of Squadron CC.

Amazing how CAP can take Deputy Commander for Cadets and get CDC out of it.

Well, deputy commander is CD (that's a Ma Blue thing I think), so it's not a huge stretch to say that CDC is for the Deputy Commander for Cadets and CDS is Deputy Commander for Seniors.

[spacecommand]

The old CAPR10-1 before the revision had this note:
"These address symbols are shown by functional areas and should not be construed as duty titles."

Note that AEO or even Aerospace Education Officer does not show up on CAPR10-1 either, the office symbol of AE is used for Aerospace Education.  Though we often use AEO as the abbreviation for Aerospace Education Officer.

[davidsinn]

When I was Deputy Commander for Cadets at Sq 45 at March AFB, ... DCC duties. 

You wont believe this, but I actually allowed cadets to try on my entry vest, hold my M4 (unloaded with a breech block) look through the ACOG and even point the laser at stuff!!!

So before you start blasting your member, perhaps you should find out the circumstances under which he is attending.

I loved going to schools for career day. Of course going to Watts the week after the L.A. riots was a hoot.

BTW, Deputy Commander for Cadets is CDC not DCC. Its my pet peeve, everyone should learn that in SLS. The only thing sillier is Squadron CO instead of Squadron CC.

Amazing how CAP can take Deputy Commander for Cadets and get CDC out of it.

Well, deputy commander is CD (that's a Ma Blue thing I think), so it's not a huge stretch to say that CDC is for the Deputy Commander for Cadets and CDS is Deputy Commander for Seniors.

CC= Command section-Commander
CD= Command section-Deputy
CDC or CD/C= Command section-Deputy for Cadets

[abdsp51]

The office symbol for a deputy commander is CV with ma blue or DO since usually most units have an ops officer who is the defacto 2IC if there is not a civilian thrown in the mix.

[davidsinn]

The office symbol for a deputy commander is CV with ma blue or DO since usually most units have an ops officer who is the defacto 2IC if there is not a civilian thrown in the mix.

CV is vice commander.

[Eclipse]

The office symbol for a deputy commander is CV with ma blue or DO since usually most units have an ops officer who is the defacto 2IC if there is not a civilian thrown in the mix.

CV = Commander Vice.

There are no Vice Commanders or Directors below wing in CAP.

The symbols indicated above are the officially published symbols used by CAP.

[ol'fido]

Remember the sage advice of Radar O'Reilly. Don't try to understand it. It just slows the work down.

[Brad]

Glad someone thought to post this topic up, because being someone who works 12 hours as a police dispatcher then goes directly to an already-late-for CAP meeting because of my work schedule, I simply don't have time to change into uniform (except on the dress nights, then I do make the extra effort to put my blues kit together and hang it up in my back seat.) and we obviously can't wear it to work. So I'm left with showing up in civvies half of the time.

The other more concerning issue is I have volunteered to teach a fire safety course for the cadets next week, with the approval of both my squadron command staff and my fire chief. Class will include a demonstration of fire equipment such as PPE and SCBA. So here's the rub: am I doing it as a firefighter giving a safety presentation? Or as my squadron's Health Services Officer? Not to mention, slinging on bunker gear in uniform would only add to the discomfort, I simply am considering wearing my department polo and duty pants. But again I'd be giving a class to cadets and seniors.

I know the world won't end if I do it wrong persay, but it's just one of those things that make ya think.

[SPD6696]

I would think that coming in to give a fire safety class, as an SME and with the approval of your FD, and using FD equipment, it would be appropriate to wear the uniform of that profession.  It lends more credibility, as it is a visual reminder to all that you are a professional in that field.

[bflynn]

Glad someone thought to post this topic up, because being someone who works 12 hours as a police dispatcher then goes directly to an already-late-for CAP meeting because of my work schedule, I simply don't have time to change into uniform (except on the dress nights, then I do make the extra effort to put my blues kit together and hang it up in my back seat.) and we obviously can't wear it to work. So I'm left with showing up in civvies half of the time.

I had that problem last week.  I got out of work late and had to make the decision to go to the meeting (late) in civies or not go at all.  After this and other threads on uniforms, I chose not to face the possibility of anyone giving me grief (although I think it was unlikely) and didn't go.  About 30 minutes later I realized it was the SDD, which I actually wanted to attend.

Just thinking over it - some people's insistence on cadet style uniform discipline for SMs just had a minor impact on safety.

[EMT-83]

There's nights where I'm coming from the other side of the state, and can't get home to change for meetings. I usually solve this problem by wearing gray slacks to work, and bringing a polo shirt.

The "Rule of the Seven Ps" applies here.

[AngelWings]

In my squadron, there are lockers assigned to each member. I used to keep an extra set of BDU's and boots in them, but then I lost a lot of weight and now only have one fitting set. I would suggest having a uniform stored at the squadron if possible, it helped me out when I couldn't change out of my regular clothes.

When folded up nicely they can be stored without taking up too much space. They could fit on a desk, on chair, on a table, etc. The BDU's, both pants and top, also you can put a folded under shirt on top of that, put your uniform cover in the pants cargo pocket (also, put the belt through all of the belt loops), and put the boots either on top of the t-shirt with the socks and blousing bands (if you're like me and wear them all of the time) or on the floor somewhere. I don't know about the blues, but I couldn't see why it wouldn't work with them too.

[lordmonar]

Those are all good suggestions.....and yes....a a little pre planning prevents poor performance.....but again....bottom line.....it is all situational.

No uniform is not going to end the world....and it is better to be present and doing your job....than absent for lack of a uniform.

YMMV.

[Flying Pig]

I want my members there, in uniform.  But most of all as the SqCC, I wanted my members there.  If your Sq culture is that you would rather miss a meeting vs showing up in civies someone needs their priorities looked at.

[bflynn]

No, I think it was the strict uniforms discussion here.  Nothing about my squadron, I should have gone.

[ol'fido]

No, I think it was the strict uniforms discussion here.  Nothing about my squadron, I should have gone.

[a2capt]

Okay, cool deal. Now we know .. it works. We can influence people. Now we just gotta start talking as intense about core values, anti-cliques, and GoB Stoppers.

[Private Investigator]

I want my members there, in uniform.  But most of all as the SqCC, I wanted my members there.  ...

Roger that.

...