Cite Please: CAP got Maroon Should Marks as punishment?

Started by Major Carrales, July 27, 2010, 03:29:00 AM

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Major Lord

#20
July 27, 2010, 03:44:10 PM Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 03:51:20 PM by MIKE
Joe, Joe, Joe,

Your post is a textbook hearsay statement; its evidence, but not necessarily excluded. Hearsay is not always bad. The hearsay you related did not exclude the possibility of the 2* incident being the proximate cause of the maroon epaulets. Yours is the only unequivocal statement that alleges that the incident was in retaliation for the UA promotion. I have never heard anyone say that they know for certain that this was the cause of the-Liberace style epaulets. I don't have direct knowledge that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was the proximate cause of Americas' involvement in WWII, but it certainly contributed to it.

I have heard CAP claims of sinking Submarines, none confirmed, yet they are taught as Holy Writ. You as a public school teacher have probably signed -on to Carbon Dioxide-as-the-scourge-of- mankind-theory,  primarily political propaganda and lacking any real evidence. Both of these things are probably resolvable by a scientific investigative process, but the facts don't really matter- they are a religious belief.

The consensus now seems to be  that it (the ceremonial blooding of  our shoulders) was the case, also derived from hearsay, allegedly from those in power with direct knowledge of the facts. You as the belligerent, seeking to deny presumed historical fact, have the obligation to provide contradictory evidence to your multiple allegations. Seeking to dispel the responses with misdirection is ineffective: Where is your evidence?

Comparison to those demanding documentation of Bush and Obama administration in a time line coincidental with the actions of concern are misdirection. A timely investigation is a cornerstone precept in all CAP investigations.

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Eclipse

#21
July 27, 2010, 03:46:21 PM
Restating the myth, arguing with the myth, or starting your post with "I heard..." isn't going to answer the question and just walks old road.

Trying to dig this up from 39-1 won't help, either, since a uniform manual isn't going to explain why a change was made (especially if it was political or punitive).

Either someone has the smoking gun memo, or they don't.  Alternatively, if Maj. Gen. Harwell were to answer, that would probably go a long way as well.

Otherwise we should probably just kill the notion and not use it as a constant discussion point regarding our relationship with the USAF.  Even if it were true, considering it was 20 years ago, CAP has redeemed itself and stepped on its own wee-wee 10x's over since then - we can point to much more recent nonsense then that for any relationship issues we may have.

"That Others May Zoom"

Flying Pig

#22
July 27, 2010, 04:02:59 PM
I was a cadet officer back then.  It was total chaos when that happened.  And it had a lot to do with, if not 100% to do with Harwell appointing himself as a Maj General, which he did without AF approval.  In a matter of months we/they went to maroon epaulets. 

Prior to that, CAP officers did wear metal ranks on their service uniform jackets.  Unless you really knew what to look for, a CAP officer looked exactly like an AF officer. Especially if they were wearing their military ribbons on their CAP uniform.  It actually looked really good.  Maroon epaulets may not have been a disciplinary measure per se, but it was definitely a way for the AF to separate our appearance from them. As I recall, there wasnt anything else going on at the time that would have caused the AF to just wake up one day and say, "You know what.....CAP needs maroon epaulets."

Eclipse
Even if it were true, considering it was 20 years ago, CAP has redeemed itself and stepped on its own wee-wee 10x's over since then - we can point to much more recent nonsense then that for any relationship issues we may have.   ;D :clap:

FW

#23
July 27, 2010, 04:21:57 PM
^Nahh, we've been perfect since then.... >:D :-*

Ok, other than for historical arguments, this thread is pointless;  except to understand that the Air Force does have some influence in what we wear.

Seems to be the perfect CT discussion. ;D

shorning

#24
July 27, 2010, 04:35:12 PM
Personally, I don't think any of you exist....cite/proof please?

???

Major Lord

#25
July 27, 2010, 04:45:05 PM
Cogito; Ergo Sum!
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Eclipse

#26
July 27, 2010, 04:47:56 PM
Ac proinde hæc cognitio, ego cogito, ergo sum, est omnium prima & certissima, quæ cuilibet ordine philosophanti occurrat.

"That Others May Zoom"

Al Sayre

#27
July 27, 2010, 04:48:31 PM Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 04:52:51 PM by Al Sayre
Cogito; Ergo vos futurus ;) 
or Vos futurus quoniam EGO reputo vos futurus
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

shorning

#28
July 27, 2010, 04:56:53 PM
So you can claim...but that's still not "proof"...nice try though...

davedove

#29
July 27, 2010, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2010, 04:56:53 PM
So you can claim...but that's still not "proof"...nice try though...

But why does he have to prove anything, since you're just a figment of a fevered imagination.;D
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

shorning

#30
July 27, 2010, 06:14:50 PM
Quote from: davedove on July 27, 2010, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2010, 04:56:53 PM
So you can claim...but that's still not "proof"...nice try though...

But why does he have to prove anything, since you're just a figment of a fevered imagination. ;D

I never claimed I existed...for all you know I'm a bot...

HGjunkie

#31
July 27, 2010, 06:27:08 PM
what the heck just happened?   :o
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

DakRadz

#32
July 27, 2010, 06:38:42 PM
CAPTalk happened. This conversation isn't for us cadinks ;D

It's for the SMs to show MIKE how much they want a locked thread. Again.

8)
P.S. shorning isn't a bot. Eclipse and RiverAux are. How many real people have that much time??

arajca

#34
July 27, 2010, 06:48:29 PM
Quote from: HGjunkie on July 27, 2010, 06:27:08 PM
what the heck just happened?   :o
They came to the fork in the road and picked it up.

DakRadz

#35
July 27, 2010, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: arajca on July 27, 2010, 06:48:29 PM
Quote from: HGjunkie on July 27, 2010, 06:27:08 PM
what the heck just happened?   :o
They came to the fork in the road and picked it up.

DakRadz has seen this happen. You joke. I don't.

Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2010, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on July 27, 2010, 06:38:42 PM
...shorning isn't a bot...

But how do you know?

I'm not at liberty to discuss that.

SarDragon

#36
July 27, 2010, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on July 27, 2010, 10:04:13 AM
The Maroon epaulets came about in 1987 for the shirts, hard grade was still worn on the service coats, along with a red velcro strip which said CAP on it. The wear of the red epaulets on the service coat came about in 1991 or 92. The grey epaulets were introduced about in the mid-90's.
It had to be later than that. I came back into CAP in '87, and was active through '89, and never saw any of the maroon stuff.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

davidsinn

#37
July 27, 2010, 08:02:45 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on July 27, 2010, 06:38:42 PM
CAPTalk happened. This conversation isn't for us cadinks ;D

It's for the SMs to show MIKE how much they want a locked thread. Again.

8)
P.S. shorning isn't a bot. Eclipse and RiverAux are. How many real people have that much time??

If Eclipse is a bot, he's one of those frakkin skin jobs.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

shorning

#38
July 27, 2010, 08:06:30 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on July 27, 2010, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2010, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: DakRadz on July 27, 2010, 06:38:42 PM
...shorning isn't a bot...

But how do you know?

I'm not at liberty to discuss that.

Oh....I wish you knew how ironic that statement was...

Patterson

#39
July 27, 2010, 08:11:55 PM
hmm....

Thanks to those in CAP Leadership late 1980's early 1990's we are we we are.  PERIOD. 

I have to say we looked better without greeey anything.  Perhaps one day, in a hundred years the Air Force may allow us to go back to blue rank slides with CAP imprinted on them.  That would look so more professional!!

In fact, the fat and bearded of us were also allowed to wear the Air Force Style Uniforms minus any "grade insignia" if memory serves.

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