Getting rid of the AF service uniform

[JoeTomasone]

The key term is "choose", its much easier to shave than lose 50 lbs, especially when you are older.  The number of seniors who would choose not to shave is  infinitesimally small compared to those who would be helpd by a relaxation of the weight tables for USAF combos.

You have to draw the line somewhere.  80-year old pilots, and no beards or ponytails seems fairly resonable for a professionalized volunteer military auxiliary.   Accept the attrition and move on.

Agreed - but the point remains that some will not comply - what uniform do those members wear?

[Gunner C]

If that were the case:  none.

[Rotorhead]

Until you are told that "you can not wear AF-Style" you will never understand what it feels like.

I was.
So I lost the weight and shaved.

If the uniform style you wear is important to you, you will do what it takes.

If it isn't, then you don't have grounds to feel like a second-class anything.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Until you are told that "you can not wear AF-Style" you will never understand what it feels like.

I was.
So I lost the weight and shaved.

If the uniform style you wear is important to you, you will do what it takes.

If it isn't, then you don't have grounds to feel like a second-class anything.

Rotorhead -  This is exactly the kind of arrogant comment that perpetuates the "second'class" feeling.  I have a medical condition that does not permit me to loose weight.  How do you propose that I loose weight while combating a medical issue; not eat? Or perhaps you can explain your statement to my wife, also a CAP member, who battles congestive heart failure, diabetes, gastroparesis, and a hiatal hernia.  She goes days eating only once a day because of the pain, but cannot loose the weight & distended abdomen.  She is also out of H/W regs; she would not be allowed to serve in the RM because of these health issues.  But is a dedicated member of CAP, going to two meetings a week, putting out the sq newsletter & puzzle pages, doing the Administrative officer job, going through UDF Team and Mission Radio Operator training, etc. 

Who are you to be so arrogant as to make the statement above?  I read your statement to my wife and she, as am I, is highly offended by it.

[Rotorhead]

Until you are told that "you can not wear AF-Style" you will never understand what it feels like.

I was.
So I lost the weight and shaved.

If the uniform style you wear is important to you, you will do what it takes.

If it isn't, then you don't have grounds to feel like a second-class anything.

Rotorhead -  This is exactly the kind of arrogant comment that perpetuates the "second'class" feeling.  I have a medical condition that does not permit me to loose weight.  How do you propose that I loose weight while combating a medical issue; not eat? Or perhaps you can explain your statement to my wife, also a CAP member, who battles congestive heart failure, diabetes, gastroparesis, and a hiatal hernia.  She goes days eating only once a day because of the pain, but cannot loose the weight & distended abdomen.  She is also out of H/W regs; she would not be allowed to serve in the RM because of these health issues.  But is a dedicated member of CAP, going to two meetings a week, putting out the sq newsletter & puzzle pages, doing the Administrative officer job, going through UDF Team and Mission Radio Operator training, etc. 

Who are you to be so arrogant as to make the statement above?  I read your statement to my wife and she, as am I, is highly offended by it.

You're taking what I said and attempting to turn it into an indictment of your abilities and/or devotion to CAP, which is not what I said at all. I did not suggest that someone who doesn't meet h/w or grooming is less important to CAP or cares less about CAP. Nor did I imply such.

We are talking about the uniform only here.

The simple fact is, there will always be some people adversely affected by any regulation.

[High Speed Low Drag]

If the uniform style you wear is important to you, you will do what it takes.

If it isn't, then you don't have grounds to feel like a second-class anything.

We are talking about the uniform.  We can not wear the USAF-style uniform, but we do NOT have a comperable unifrom to wear to the AF-style, which for reasons beyond our control, we are not allowed to wear.

This is why we need to get rid of the AF-Style for Seniors and go to one "military-style" uniform for all senior members.  We are offended because you stated that it was our fault that we could not wear the AF-style uniform (you lost the weight, so we should too), but since we don't loose the weight, we shouldn't feel "second-class" because we can't wear a similar uniform to what you can wear.

[davedove]

You have to draw the line somewhere.  80-year old pilots, and no beards or ponytails seems fairly resonable for a professionalized volunteer military auxiliary.   Accept the attrition and move on.

And yet one could argue the other side as well.  Why must a line be drawn at all?  CAP accepts the membership of all, whether they meet these standards or not.  It's like saying "OK, we'll let you be a member, but we can't let you look like you belong with the rest of us."

[Rotorhead]

If the uniform style you wear is important to you, you will do what it takes.

If it isn't, then you don't have grounds to feel like a second-class anything.

We are talking about the uniform.  We can not wear the USAF-style uniform, but we do NOT have a comperable unifrom to wear to the AF-style, which for reasons beyond our control, we are not allowed to wear.

This is why we need to get rid of the AF-Style for Seniors and go to one "military-style" uniform for all senior members.

You want to be confrontational, fine.

Who are you to say that I should not be allowed wear a USAF-style uniform, just because you can't?

[High Speed Low Drag]

I am a member that doesn't say "I'm better than you because I can wear the AF-style." 
I am a member that says "Let's all be able to be recognized for the job we do, not just those that can fit in an AF-style uniform."
I am a member that wants CAP Seniors to all look professional and uniform.
I am a member that wants equal treatment for all senior members.

[Rotorhead]

I am a member that doesn't say "I'm better than you because I can wear the AF-style." 
I am a member that says "Let's all be able to be recognized for the job we do, not just those that can fit in an AF-style uniform."
I am a member that wants CAP Seniors to all look professional and uniform.
I am a member that wants equal treatment for all senior members.

You are also a member in the minority who wishes to impose their desires on the majority.

If you are as committed to CAP and its goals as you claim, then the fact that you can't wear a USAF-style uniform should not matter to you.

[heliodoc]

Very Well said High Speed Low Drag.....

But there are some CAPers that seem to think the uniform is the only thing and it is!!!   Lookit all those threads!!

Really nothing else to talk about...Like one thread said    what would happen if all of a sudden we dropped from 57K to 34K members due to all the uniform issues......think the AF or Congress would be funding us then??   One swipe of the pen and bet CAP could be a 68 yr old has been

Some folks in CAP have to get OVER themselves and all the uniform wear issues....I personally can not wait for 1AF to say to CAP .....no more

Maybe THAT by itself will cull all those issues about uniforms....maybe

Remember this CAPTalk.....where a refreshing new thread about uniforms can be started within seconds!!

[N Harmon]

As one who does not meet H/W standards, I don't mind not being able to wear the AF uniform. Just please don't take away my polo shirt and slacks. Really, outside of blue BDUs it's the only uniform I look decent in.

[Rotorhead]

I am a member that doesn't say "I'm better than you because I can wear the AF-style." 
I am a member that says "Let's all be able to be recognized for the job we do, not just those that can fit in an AF-style uniform."
I am a member that wants CAP Seniors to all look professional and uniform.
I am a member that wants equal treatment for all senior members.

You are also a member in the minority who wishes to impose their desires on the majority.

If you are as committed to CAP and its goals as you claim, then the fact that you can't wear a USAF-style uniform should not matter to you.

One more thing:

As several people on this board can attest, I have an untreatable debilitating disease myself.

And if, at some point, that causes me to be ineligible to wear the USAF-style uniform, I will return to my BBDUs and white and grey combination uniforms, and continue to do my work with CAP.

I assure you I would/will not then ask everyone else to change uniforms to suit me and my needs.

[Eclipse]

You are also a member in the minority who wishes to impose their desires on the majority.

No, he's not.  Anyone who is even reasonably active knows that without overweight, middle-aged adults, CAP collapses overnight, or becomes a radically different organization with a limited ability to fulfill its missions.

Don't forget about all the guys we all see "fudging 10" who have no more business in a USAF combo than those who are pushing 50 over.

And if, at some point, that causes me to be ineligible to wear the USAF-style uniform, I will return to my BBDUs and white and grey combination uniforms, and continue to do my work with CAP.

How nice for you that the things you like to do in CAP can still be accomplished in the same way in the uniforms available to you without looking like an 8th grader who forgot it was picture day.  That's not the case for all of us.

[Rotorhead]

You are also a member in the minority who wishes to impose their desires on the majority.

No, he's not.  Anyone who is even reasonably active knows that without overweight, middle-aged adults, CAP collapses overnight, or becomes a radically different organization with a limited ability to fulfill its missions.

Don't forget about all the guys we all see "fudging 10" who have no more business in a USAF combo than those who are pushing 50 over.

The minority to which I refer is that group which has a medical reason they cannot lose weight.

I'm not talking about those who could lose weight if they chose to do so but don't.

[Rotorhead]

How nice for you that the things you like to do in CAP can still be accomplished in the same way in the uniforms available to you without looking like an 8th grader who forgot it was picture day.  That's not the case for all of us.

What do you "do" in CAP that causes you to look like an 8th grader in your opinion?

I have appeared on television and at public events in both the BBDUs and white/grey without looking like that.

[Eclipse]

You are also a member in the minority who wishes to impose their desires on the majority.

No, he's not.  Anyone who is even reasonably active knows that without overweight, middle-aged adults, CAP collapses overnight, or becomes a radically different organization with a limited ability to fulfill its missions.

Don't forget about all the guys we all see "fudging 10" who have no more business in a USAF combo than those who are pushing 50 over.

The minority to which I refer is that group which has a medical reason they cannot lose weight.

I'm not talking about those who could lose weight if they chose to do so but don't.

That number is likely about the same as those who have beards and long hair, so discard both sides as statistical anomaly and discuss the majority of members who are over the tables by at least "something", and would have a much louder voice if CAP commanders started actually enforcing the rules 100% on grooming and weight.

[Eclipse]

What do you "do" in CAP that causes you to look like an 8th grader in your opinion?

I have appeared on television and at public events in both the BBDUs and white/grey without looking like that.

Ever stand in a military formation on a military dais with a bunch of officers 1/2 your grade and accomplishments in full service dress who are at attention saluting as the colors parade by while you are wearing an off-the rack blazer with a pocket protector and your hand over your heart like you're a guest instead of their commander?

Start from there and do the math.

[heliodoc]

^^^

Enforcement starts from the top on down

CAP "enforcement" is WOEFULLY lacking....until CAP NHQ can "get tough"  whaddya going to do?

CAP commanders and louder voice?  The only louder voice could be from 1 AF TELLING CAP to put up or shut up

Then there may be a louder voice...until then....most Sdqn leadership and CC's will be towing the status quo and continue to to chirp to the membership

If you want a voice .....  Call PAPA 1AF  maybe they 'll listen ...until then...CAPTalk.......lotta tough talk goes on here

[High Speed Low Drag]

What do you "do" in CAP that causes you to look like an 8th grader in your opinion?

I have appeared on television and at public events in both the BBDUs and white/grey without looking like that.

Ever stand in a military formation on a military dais with a bunch of officers 1/2 your grade and accomplishments in full service dress who are at attention saluting as the colors parade by while you are wearing an off-the rack blazer with a pocket protector and your hand over your heart like you're a guest instead of their commander?

Start from there and do the math.

Or attend a banquet where 3/4th the attendees are in full mess dress and all you have is your Blazer with the pocket protector?