The Hock Shop hit with lawsuit?

[Ned]

If they didn't care, then why did so many NB agenda items items suddenly appear that were VERY close to the discussion here on CT ref: corporate uniforms?  They saw the upwelling of anger and saw the writing on the wall.  When we're mad enough, they listen and react to it.

Sorry. just had to chuckle at that.

Are you referring to the huge groundswell of anger that manifested itself in the uniform agenda items?  When all of CT was anticipating a huge fight between the NB and the NEC?  The "Meeting of the Century" with fireworks and excitement?  The Return of the CSU?

You know, the one where the uniform items were quietly assigned to Yet Another Uniform Committee (YAUC) to get some more study?  Perhaps the least controversial meeting in CAPs history?

Are we talking about the same thing?

I'm confident that the huge groundswell of CT support for Tom will have the same effect.   

[FW]

I agree with Ned on this one.  I seriously doubt petitions trying to help Tom will work at this point.
Unless the membership agrees to a dues increase to make up for the short fall, I doubt there will be any changes to the status quo.  And, to tell you the truth, except for the few who will agree, a large part of the membership opposes (or at least prefer not) paying any dues at all.

[RiverAux]

FW, I do recall you saying that it was your impression that CAPTalk threads on the regulation setting process were responsible for the multitude of agenda items on that topic....

[Zen Master Charlie]

Im just getting tired of all of the people disagreeing with me, so I'm replacing all of my comments with this message... If you cant accept someones opinion, go complain somewhere else, CAP dosent need more whining people... ITS A FRIGGIN OPINION, SUCK IT UP AND MOVE ON PEOPLE!!

[heliodoc]

Mr Caldwell

Consider the source...

This is CAPTalk......a forum of individuals.  Individuals that might put you down for your accomplishments or quite possibly your difference in opinion of CAP.  Take it with LESS than a grain of salt.  Stop by often just to get your humor on.  Take nothing too seriously here!!

Some have basis and fact behind them.  Some do not really realize what goes on beyond their own backyard...

Step in once-n-while....enjoy the humor.   ' Cuz you are gonna get sharp tongued SM's all over the place here.

Stay in CAP....  enjoy the ride .....go on to the military...go on to be a productive cadet and future SM

Then YOU can become sharp tongued as us and again...enjoy the humor.... this is all Fun stuff, Mr Caldwell

Please do not take anything here personally..... take it with LESS than a grain of salt

[Gunner C]

Seems to me he was on-time, on-target.  I've always been pretty deferential in my military career, but when someone crosses the personal line, fire a shot across the bow then go back to being deferential, as a cadet should be.  Someone has instructed this cadet well.  He'll make a fine officer some day. [/snicker]

[FW]

FW, I do recall you saying that it was your impression that CAPTalk threads on the regulation setting process were responsible for the multitude of agenda items on that topic....

And your recollection would be accurate.  However, in this case, the only idea which would work is one where there would be a viable alternative to getting the commissions from Vangard.  I don't think there is any in the petitions.  If the contributors on CT would offer some, as with the uniform threads, there may be some positive action.  Any other ideas except for raising dues?

[Eclipse]

Facebook groups, Twitter, and online petitions are meaningless to most corporations and large organizations.  They may pay them lip service because "Social Media" is the "in" thing this year, but they are primarily a necessary evil that corporations put up with because they have to.  Do you think the average business really wants to build a "community" with people who buy their products and are primarily complaining?  Hint: "no". 

Tech support and public contact past the sale means less profit on each respective sale - that's why most customer service reps have been farmed out to call centers in other countries.

Anything which can be submitted with a "click", or the equivalent effort, will get the equivalent attention by the person its aimed at.  Further, many of the comments on that group indicate little understanding of the actual problem, which further degrades the effectiveness.

Considering that NHQ doesn't even have an official Facebook presence means you are basically just talking amongst yourselves. 
You might as well yell into the Grand Canyon, at least the echo will give you the impression someone is listening.

[a2capt]

@ Spike
I don't know who you are, what your rank is, what you do for a living etc... but I found your response to my OPINION... Highly Disrespectful.

As exactly my issue too, there's just an awful lot of that same kind of attitude towards a lot of peoples posts, questions, and opinions. 

IE, it's a good thing I visited the Salt Mine in Hutchinson, KS, last July.

I keep that big huge salt rock beside the monitor here.. for CAPTalk. A grain isn't enough anymore.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Im just getting tired of all of the people disagreeing with me, so I'm replacing all of my comments with this message... If you cant accept someones opinion, go complain somewhere else, CAP dosent need more whining people... ITS A FRIGGIN OPINION, SUCK IT UP AND MOVE ON PEOPLE!!

[Майор Хаткевич]

@ Spike

I don't know who you are, what your rank is, what you do for a living etc... but I found your response to my OPINION... Highly Disrespectful. I wouldn't care if you were Gen Courter, even she has to have some respect for her cadets, as we respect her. Your smart ass talking back did nothing for me, and I hope you know when you do things like that, people tend to tune you out and your poit does not get made. I chose not to read all of your response because of this. AGAIN, I was voicing my opinion, and if you can't handle that, please do not respond, and please do not teach others to act like that as well.

FACT: I have had to wait 5 weeks for back order items from Vanguard. FACT: I was the supply Sgt for my SQ for just over 2 years. FACT: I spent more than $1K, closer to 2K on CAP equipment, our squadron is the most active, in the wing (all of my money WAS reimbursed) FACT: I was trusted to run Supply that long because I have the maturity to not talk back to, other people, especially my subordinates, because they are the ones I need to trust me! OPINION: CAP and Vanguard should leave the Hock ALONE!

Chill the horses there. Your response is way out of line, and nowhere near what Spike posted in response to you. Further, when you admit to not having read someone's full response, that only reflects on you.

You believe in normative economics, great! Unfortunately, the law of the land and positive economics are the reality we live with, and whatever opinion you have of how CAP should deal with the Hock issue, there is only way the can deal with it is to uphold the contract they signed some 3 years or so ago. The Hock Shop lost my business and those who asked me about it due to quality issues and lack of inventory. As someone who now works for an American business, I have even less support for them, because I know what it's like to compete with the Chinese crap sellers. Vanguard on the other hand is a USA producer, and since you claim to hate monopolies, you should probably support them over the Taiwan producers the Hock uses.

The Facts are that Hock does not supply us everything we need.
The Facts are that Hock does not always get the quality right.
The Facts are that Hock does not always get the look right.

I still can spot who has a wing patch from the Hock, and who has one from CAPMart/Vanguard in my wing. How? Someone at Hock, or the sweatshop owner in Taiwan is colorblind.

The fact is, Vanguard is required to provide us with all of our insignia, even, as has been pointed out, the ones that sell maybe a dozen units a year. Do you know what I do for my company? If something sells 10 units a year, we don't make it when the stock runs out...in 5 years or so. Vanguard is required to make it nonetheless. The Hock does what my company does, except they don't even bother getting it in the first place. Vanguard I can trust to have the same Feik ribbon as the ones from CAPMart, and they will have the same dimensions. From the Hock...one week I'd get an AF ribbon, the next I'd get two Feik ribbons with different dimensions.

There has been a number of suppliers of CAP items that deserved an exemption more than the Hock, but no one started a petition for them. Simply being around for years avoids the issue of the fact that a legal binding contract is the end all answer in this case.

[a2capt]

The "Tom is a member" doesn't cut it either, as an argument in my book either.

Does being a cop make it permissible to get away with things cops go after others for?

I know, not quite the same circumstance, but .. basically, Tom's membership status has zero to do with his offering product.

As I said before, the court filing is dated from August 2009, and the take down stuff commented on the web site is only a couple weeks old. Even within the notice it refers to the ongoing case.

So, until it's all out in the open, calling NHQ on the carpet over it, is rather pointless.

Point is, they are required to uphold their side of a contact. If that contract was "sole source awarding" then they, not the vendor they awarded it to, has to defend the contract. Otherwise they are breaking it, by not doing anything about it, thats condoning.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Im just getting tired of all of the people disagreeing with me, so I'm replacing all of my comments with this message... If you cant accept someones opinion, go complain somewhere else, CAP dosent need more whining people... ITS A FRIGGIN OPINION, SUCK IT UP AND MOVE ON PEOPLE!!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Ok, I gotta stop posting on this one, but I was just reading through CAPR 52-16 Ch 3, (just brushing up on my CAC info) and I noticed this quote:

"Shoulder cords must be of the same style and shade stocked for CAP by Vanguard Industries (civilairpatrlstore.com)"

Haha, If I wanted to buy my shoulder cord from the parade store, who's gonna stop me... they are all the same color, same material provided by the same distributors... I laugh at this quote simply because it obviously shows favouritism for Vanguard, when in reality, CAP has no authority to tell me who I HAVE to purchase from... that my friends IS against my constitutional rights!  :clap:

You just answered your own question. It doesn't say it has to come from Vanguard, simply that it has to be the same style as the ones sold by Vanguard. And if it's all the same suppliers (it's not), then what difference does it make? Besides, the Honor Guard cord is atrocious. I know because I foolishly wore it.

Please don't try to downgrade >MY< time in CAP simply because I disagree with you/agree with someone you don't. I already explained that what you believe should be, isn't always the IS in this world. To basically call me a mindless drone that obeys superiors is just passing judgments you are in no position to make, while at the same time expecting fellow cadets to rally behind your opinion. I've budded heads with SMs more than I probably should have, but it was all part of >MY< personal growth with CAP.

P.S. Your Earhart is out of place on your ribbon rack.

[Eclipse]

Haha, If I wanted to buy my shoulder cord from the parade store, who's gonna stop me... they are all the same color, same material provided by the same distributors... I laugh at this quote simply because it obviously shows favouritism for Vanguard, when in reality, CAP has no authority to tell me who I HAVE to purchase from... that my friends IS against my constitutional rights! 

You may wish to re-read the oath.  CAP is fully within its rights to tell you to do anything it wants, as long as they don't violate the law.
Your recourse is then to decide whether the benefits provided to you from your membership are worth compliance.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Haha, If I wanted to buy my shoulder cord from the parade store, who's gonna stop me... they are all the same color, same material provided by the same distributors... I laugh at this quote simply because it obviously shows favouritism for Vanguard, when in reality, CAP has no authority to tell me who I HAVE to purchase from... that my friends IS against my constitutional rights! 

You may wish to re-read the oath.  CAP is fully within its rights to tell you to do anything it wants, as long as they don't violate the law.
Your recourse is then to decide whether the benefits provided to you from your membership are worth compliance.

AHH, however, CAP does not have the constitutional right to tell me what to do with my own money! Yes I pay dues, and thats fair, but no group can order you to purchase items form a certain business, thats like your superiror ordering you to only eat at BK for the rest of your life, you cant buy food anywhere else! :p

and I know it doesnt say you HAVE to buy from Vanguard, but the fact that they put it in there, its basically advertising...

[Zen Master Charlie]

Im just getting tired of all of the people disagreeing with me, so I'm replacing all of my comments with this message... If you cant accept someones opinion, go complain somewhere else, CAP dosent need more whining people... ITS A FRIGGIN OPINION, SUCK IT UP AND MOVE ON PEOPLE!!

[Eclipse]

AHH, however, CAP does not have the constitutional right to tell me what to do with my own money!

Which Constitution?  The US Constitution?  No, CAP can't force you legally to do much of anything.

The CAP Constitution?  Yes, it can pretty much tell you to do whatever it wants to, and if you wish to remain a member, you will
comply, or risk being disciplined or terminated.

[Zen Master Charlie]

AHH, however, CAP does not have the constitutional right to tell me what to do with my own money!

Which Constitution?  The US Constitution?  No, CAP can't force you legally to do much of anything.

The CAP Constitution?  Yes, it can pretty much tell you to do whatever it want to, and if you wish to remain a member, you will
comply, or risk being disciplined or terminated.

But yet still, it can not make me buy a spacific thing from a spacific place, unless the regs tell otherwise... but in this case its just a guidline. If 52-16 told me I had to buy from BK and no other restauraunt for the rest of my life, I would not have joined.... simple as that

[Майор Хаткевич]

Putting it in the reg is not advertising, it's telling you what it has to look like.

On the ribbon rack, if it's wrong and you know it is, why put it up?

Also, please show me where I put you down. This isn't a popularity contest, just because you have "300" people in CAP who supposedly agree with you 100%, doesn't mean it's right.