ICL for Phaseout of CSU posted

[ßτε]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2010_02_16_CAP_uniforms_EA51A6906B737.pdf

[Eclipse]

Interesting - extended to Jan 2012, replaces metal grade with standard CAP sleeves, metal grade removed by 1 September 2010.

Also indicates cadets wearing the whites wear the standard blue cadet nameplate.

[RiverAux]

How does the National Commander alter a date set by the NEC?

[Smithsonia]

I knew the CSU was gone. I didn't know the black sweater, black windbreaker, and black over coat were gone also. I own them all. Man that hurts.

I am not sure how one stays warm in their aviator shirt alone, given the ambient temperatures in Denver this time of year Being that we normally dress in layers - I predict that we'll be required to pile 10 aviator shirts - one a top the other - in ever increasing sizes - just to stay comfortable -  is going to look rather funky. I also predict cadets will snicker.

[davidsinn]

I knew the CSU was gone. I didn't know the black sweater, black windbreaker, and black over coat were gone also. I own them all. Man that hurts.

I am not sure how one stays warm in their aviator shirt alone, given the ambient temperatures in Denver this time of year Being that we normally dress in layers - I predict that we'll be required to pile 10 aviator shirts - one a top the other - in ever increasing sizes - just to stay comfortable -  is going to look rather funky. I also predict cadets will snicker.

You can wear any civilian coat over the white and grays.

[FW]

You can wear the black windbreaker and sweater over the white and grays too.  Just can't wear any grade insignia or name plate or patches on them.  But, if you choose to wear layers of aviator shirts, just send us a picture for our reference.

[Eclipse]

I knew the CSU was gone. I didn't know the black sweater, black windbreaker, and black over coat were gone also. I own them all. Man that hurts.

The black windbreaker, sweater, and overcoat were never authorized for wear over the Aviator Whites, and worn as such would fall into
the realm of mixing military items with distinctive uniform parts.

The black sweater can't really be worn at all, since NHQ has not provided a specification as to what a "tactical" sweater means (only that its not the Army sweater).

As I recall, the blue cardigan was approved for wear with the Aviator Whites, but not the pull-over.

It just struck me that for the next two years (at least), the only real discernable difference between the two service dress uniforms will be the shirt nameplate and the color of the shirt.  A lot can happen in the next two years, including a new National CC and probably different leadership at CAP-USAF as well (plus a lot of new Wing and Region CC's). Its interesting that they didn't wait until the debates next week to finalize this, though, as much of this is on the agenda.

[FW]

^ I hate to say this but, I think there is a lot of "stuff" going on behind closed doors to quell dissent from the NB members.

[Cecil DP]

^ I hate to say this but, I think there is a lot of "stuff" going on behind closed doors to quell dissent from the NB members.

And if they're replaced as Board members, they go with a DSM and an eagle on their collar.

[FW]

^Only if they leave when their term is up.  I know quite a few former NB members that are Lt Cols with no DSM.

[SStradley]

With the TPU CSU, I have always wondered why we did not use the gray CAP epaulet sleeves.  I bet that if HWSNBN had gone with them (and no hard rank) from the start the AF would be just fine with them.  After all they are just a white shirt and navy blue pants in the end. 

[Eclipse]

With the TPU CSU, I have always wondered why we did not use the gray CAP epaulet sleeves.  I bet that if HWSNBN had gone with them (and no hard rank) from the start the AF would be just fine with them.  After all they are just a white shirt and navy blue pants in the end.

+1 (except the move to change HWSRN to HWSNBN) 

[Hawk200]

With the TPU CSU, I have always wondered why we did not use the gray CAP epaulet sleeves.  I bet that if HWSNBN had gone with them (and no hard rank) from the start the AF would be just fine with them.  After all they are just a white shirt and navy blue pants in the end.

I would agree. There was little legitimate reason to go with the different rank and nametags in the first place.

[Spike]

It just struck me that for the next two years (at least), the only real discernable difference between the two service dress uniforms will be the shirt nameplate and the color of the shirt.  A lot can happen in the next two years, including a new National CC and probably different leadership at CAP-USAF as well (plus a lot of new Wing and Region CC's). Its interesting that they didn't wait until the debates next week to finalize this, though, as much of this is on the agenda.

YUP.  How the hell can that be allowed, but the current policy of overweight/beards not wearing AF-style NOT be allowed.

From a distance a person wearing the CSU (with changes) will look just like an AF-Style wearing slim and trim member.

(edit...changed the word FAT to overweight/beards in case anyone does not like the word fat.  I apologize)

[Eclipse]

Perhaps compromise is in the air...

[Smithsonia]

Once these matters are settled... and that is asking a lot, I realize. It would be good if 39-1 was redone to include all the changes. I can't keep track. I think about these items only occasionally. I think that currently we have multiple change letters overlaying the current 39-1 - making for numerous translations and various level of compliance.

So let me got this right. After 1-1-12 I can still wear my pullover sweater, black wind breaker, and black over coat, without markings rank, patches, metals, etc... but I wear these as civilian items over my uniform? I could even wear these items over my golf shirt? Is that correct?

I would say the first paragraph of the new ICL is ambiguous at best. SEE BELOW

1.  The National Executive Committee recently approved a proposal to phase out the
Corporate Service uniform, including the Corporate service coat, white aviator shirt
and AF blue slacks combination, black windbreaker, black overcoat and black
police-style sweaters.  A 1 January 2011 phase out date was originally established
for these items.  After careful consideration, it has been determined that the original
phase out date does not provide members with sufficient time to wear items recently
purchased.  For this reason the phase out date for these uniform combinations has
been extended to 1 January 2012.   

[FW]

I do.  I bought my sweater at KMART a number of years ago.  Looks good with gray slacks.    BTW: I think I saw the windbreaker at Sears.   

[heliodoc]

Whether anyone wants to address "aatitudes" on theses forums

It appears the continual CSU issue has finally got another ICL pegged against it.

Well, well, well, more of CAP and its uniform issues  Will 39-1 ever get redone, rewritten, reworded??

Time will tell.  This is what makes CAP a uniform regulation a laughing stock

This organization is destined for ONE uniform and hopefully PAPA 1AF can assist us to speed that along  (spell get OUT of the AF uniform altogether)

CAPTalkers can chirp about the RM all they want about the RM changes.  CAP, after 68 yrs and needs to adopt  either 1) AF standards all together OR 2) a NEW CAP uniform for everybody..slims to overweight and fuzzy

I Feel sorry for the folks who got suckered into this deal and dropped major dinero

[Eclipse]

So let me got this right. After 1-1-12 I can still wear my pullover sweater, black wind breaker, and black over coat, without markings rank, patches, metals, etc... but I wear these as civilian items over my uniform? I could even wear these items over my golf shirt? Is that correct?

No.  Mixing corporate and military uniform items is specifically prohibited by 39-1. 

I see no authorization of any pull-over sweater for the whites - this would cover up all grade and other markings, making whether you are even in a uniform ambiguous at best.

You will not find the proper CSU windbreaker or the sweater at Sears.

[ZigZag911]

R 2) a NEW CAP uniform for everybody..slims to overweight and fuzzy

This is the direction we should take for ALL seniors.