Update on ABU wear.

[desertengineer1]

With respect to the statement as published in the Takeoff, yeah, I am in agreement 100%.  After 20 years I've come to loath such announcements as "mandates".

Made up rules that are essentially not enforceable do nothing but lower moral and increase mistrust of the chain of command.  Aside from being just plain wrong, they multiply my work (damage control) and in some cases, go completely against a life and limb preserving process (EX: Safety and Security).

[MIKE]

Question is, would we keep using the Ultramarine Blue, or would we simply go to a matching nametape that says "Civil Air Patrol".

If we do end up switching over to the ABU's, I would personally hope we just go with the material that matches them.  I doubt that would happen though since we didn't make the change the last time.

Having seen what is proposed... I would stick to white on ultramarine.

Made up rules that are essentially not enforceable do nothing but lower moral and increase mistrust of the chain of command.  Aside from being just plain wrong, they multiply my work (damage control) and in some cases, go completely against a life and limb preserving process (EX: Safety and Security).

I think you meant to say morale, but it's funnier this way.  Because people who buy/wear unauthorized uniforms are immoral. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Question is, would we keep using the Ultramarine Blue, or would we simply go to a matching nametape that says "Civil Air Patrol".

If we do end up switching over to the ABU's, I would personally hope we just go with the material that matches them.  I doubt that would happen though since we didn't make the change the last time.

Having seen what is proposed... I would stick to white on ultramarine.

Made up rules that are essentially not enforceable do nothing but lower moral and increase mistrust of the chain of command.  Aside from being just plain wrong, they multiply my work (damage control) and in some cases, go completely against a life and limb preserving process (EX: Safety and Security).

I think you meant to say morale, but it's funnier this way.  Because people who buy/wear unauthorized uniforms are immoral. 

I have NOT seen what is proposed, but I THOUGHT it was white on a matching dark blue.  That would look much better than white on ultramarine, on the BBDU.  I'm not sure how it would look on ABU.

[DC]

I have NOT seen what is proposed, but I THOUGHT it was white on a matching dark blue.  That would look much better than white on ultramarine, on the BBDU.  I'm not sure how it would look on ABU.

Not great, but better than ultramarine. Navy wouldn't contrast as much

[Major Carrales]

Remember the ultramarine blue nametapery is reminiscent of the old style USAF tapes which were white on a blue background.  These were worn thus prior to BDUs.  It would seem that CAP continued a tradition that the USAF lost, mostly likely because USAF personnel in a combat zone would not benefit by having bright colors on their uniforms, while in CAP this is a moot point. 

[Hawk200]

Remember the ultramarine blue nametapery is reminiscent of the old style USAF tapes which were white on a blue background.  These were worn thus prior to BDUs.  It would seem that CAP continued a tradition that the USAF lost, mostly likely because USAF personnel in a combat zone would not benefit by having bright colors on their uniforms, while in CAP this is a moot point.

Honestly, I don't really think it's a case of carrying on tradition, I think we've just been left behind. The blue nametapes are a deep history (for most of us) carryover from a time that even the general public isn't really aware of anymore.

Do we need the same nametapes as the Air Force? No, and personally I'm against it. However, ultramarine blue looks garish on BDU's, and I'd imagine on the ABU. Our blue BDU's are navy in color, and AF blue stripes look good on those uniforms. The appearance fails when it comes to bright blue nametags.

Easy fix is to go with navy colored nametags. We have navy background rank for the BBDU, and the blue flightsuit already. We could have navy blue nametapes tomorrow if we wanted. Badges wouldn't really take much longer.

For the sake of member costs, I'd leave BDU's alone, just use navy on ABU's. It's not really any added expense, you have to buy nametapes for the ABU when you buy the uniform anyway.

Out of curiousity, I wonder how many people are actually wearing navy tapes on BBDU's because it just makes sense, and they don't know any better. There's a certain irony to "it looks right" when it's actually wrong.

I would love to know what the proposal on the ABU actually is. I hope it's not going to be a case of it just being announced and there is no input on it. Even the Air Force gave the appearance of asking airman what they wanted. Then again the initial response on the initial utility uniform concept was so overwhelmingly negative that it died.

[Phillip]

I too would hope that the powers that be have some proposal (or two) in mind to submit to the Air Force for approval.

This would be a great opportunity for us to create some sort of wear test type program.  Some system by which members get to see some of the proposed mock ups, vote on them, and then the two top vote getters get submitted to the Air Force of the final approval.  But I fear that it will be implemented and then have to be changed several times.

[arajca]

Easy fix is to go with navy colored nametags. We have navy background rank for the BBDU, and the blue flightsuit already. We could have navy blue nametapes tomorrow if we wanted. Badges wouldn't really take much longer.

Navy background grade is NOT authorized for the BBDU, only the navy flightsuit and utility uniform.

I did submit a proposal for navy background grade, tapes, and insignia for the BBDU, and the ABU when authorized. It died at the NB as part of the whole "kill most of the uniform issues" attitude.

[Hawk200]

Easy fix is to go with navy colored nametags. We have navy background rank for the BBDU, and the blue flightsuit already. We could have navy blue nametapes tomorrow if we wanted. Badges wouldn't really take much longer.

Navy background grade is NOT authorized for the BBDU, only the navy flightsuit and utility uniform.

Whoops. Wasn't paying attention on that, thinking utility and said BBDU.

It would be easy to do though.

[wuzafuzz]

I wish we could just use a background color that closely matches the uniform and have the lettering bright.  Granted we don't need camouflage, but ultramarine is just horrid on camouflage.  I wore it on the pickle suit but somehow it didn't seem as bad.

[biomed441]

I wish we could just use a background color that closely matches the uniform and have the lettering bright.  Granted we don't need camouflage, but ultramarine is just horrid on camouflage.  I wore it on the pickle suit but somehow it didn't seem as bad.

I like that idea. Go with a solid color that looks like it would belong there.  What colors are the ABU's anyways? I'm color blind so it could be any of 20+ colors in my visual spectrum.

[arajca]

I wish we could just use a background color that closely matches the uniform and have the lettering bright.  Granted we don't need camouflage, but ultramarine is just horrid on camouflage.  I wore it on the pickle suit but somehow it didn't seem as bad.

The pickle suit had two things going for it. First, it was a solid color, so most non-neon colors would look decent or better. Second, everyone was used to seing the name/branch tapes stand out on it. (I remember white, black, bright blue, dark blue, gold just to name a few - don't ask who was wearing which color or why).

[DC]

I wish we could just use a background color that closely matches the uniform and have the lettering bright.  Granted we don't need camouflage, but ultramarine is just horrid on camouflage.  I wore it on the pickle suit but somehow it didn't seem as bad.

I like that idea. Go with a solid color that looks like it would belong there.  What colors are the ABU's anyways? I'm color blind so it could be any of 20+ colors in my visual spectrum.

I believe it's gray, pewter green and a weird pale, almost grayish blue. Gray tapes with dark blue lettering wouldn't look too bad, and would be distinctive enough, IMO.

[biomed441]

Ah ok. Yeah grey with blue would look good enough then.  Has anyone figured out what has, or will be submitted though?  Hope they actually give some of us lowly regulars a chance to voice our opinions first before making their executive decision.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I wouldn't bet on the gray, only because it won't be as distinctive under low light conditions. Try gray letters on dark blue (darker than the current ultramarine).

Also, since unit emblems are nixed on the ABU, that'll likely set a CAP cottage industry back.

[DC]

I wouldn't bet on the gray, only because it won't be as distinctive under low light conditions. Try gray letters on dark blue (darker than the current ultramarine).

Also, since unit emblems are nixed on the ABU, that'll likely set a CAP cottage industry back.

IMO gray on dark blue would be hard to read...

If we're stuck with blue then I can live with navy with white lettering, or at least something less bright and garish.

Let's just hope we don't end up with something like this!

[Hawk200]

If we're stuck with blue then I can live with navy with white lettering, or at least something less bright and garish.

Agreed. It's still blue, just something a liitle more professional looking. Dark blue tapes would also match the stripes worn by NCO's. We keep hearing about NCO's being integrated, we need to consider their needs as well.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I wouldn't bet on the gray, only because it won't be as distinctive under low light conditions. Try gray letters on dark blue (darker than the current ultramarine).

Also, since unit emblems are nixed on the ABU, that'll likely set a CAP cottage industry back.

IMO gray on dark blue would be hard to read...

If we're stuck with blue then I can live with navy with white lettering, or at least something less bright and garish.

Let's just hope we don't end up with something like this!

A light gray that matches the ABU gray should be OK against navy blue.

[Mustang]

AFAIK, the Rip-Stop ABU's are not approved.
But since when has that stopped anybody when they're better then the "approved" item.

Apparently, you're right: http://www.tinker.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123151472

I don't particulary care for this statement in the article though: "Essentially, if you don't buy it from AAFES or it hasn't been issued to you," ... "it is not only unauthorized, but presents many risks."

Does she mean like the risk of heat-related injury the "approved" uniform imposes? 

[JohnKachenmeister]

The UM blue nametapes on the BBDU look like the uniform is already wash-wear faded even if brand new.

Can the NB just approve some uniform suggestion because it looks better than the current alternative?

Like the silly posturing over the silver braid vs blue braid on the TPU... the blue just plain looks better, but nobody on the NB had the testicular fortitude to just come out and SAY that!