Hawk and NBB bling clarification on NEC agenda

[arajca]

The agenda for the May NEC meeting is out. May I direct your attention to Pges 17-19 dealing with Hawk Mtn and NBB bling.

I have a couple of issues what is being proposed:
1. Why should Hawk staff and expert rangers wear grade on ball caps when CAPM 39-1 prohibits it on ball caps?
2. Since only Hawk Mtn qualifies for ranger tabs and it is only offered once per year why should the tabs be authorized? They have no practical purpose outside of Hawk Mtn. Hawk grads already get the patch.
3. Speaking of tabs, the medic tabs really serve no purpose because CAP does not have a medic qualification.
4. They need to address the issue of 'crushing' or 'rolling' the ball cap. It is currently prohibited and should remain so.

At least they got part of it right (IMO):

Orange t-shirts, color-coded scarves and pistol belts will not be worn away from the
activity.

On the berets, while I personally do not like them, they are at least limiting it to the cow pie beret itself. The NBB patch was already authorized.

[RiverAux]

Don't like this concept at all.

Whats next?  Is each NCSA going to have their own special hats and shirts that can be worn long after the activity is over?  We've got almost no uniformity in anything as it is, and adding in this individual variation is even worse.  Jeez, isn't a patch enough?

[arajca]

Don't like this concept at all.

Whats next?  Is each NCSA going to have their own special hats and shirts that can be worn long after the activity is over?  We've got almost no uniformity in anything as it is, and adding in this individual variation is even worse.  Jeez, isn't a patch enough?

I defintiely agree with this sentiment.

[CASH172]

I'm just hoping that if the NEC happens to miraculously pass it, that the AF will have some sense and so no.

[Major Carrales]

If there is to be "special activity" items, my I suggest uniformity?  Lets say, in keeping with tradition, one beret authorized for attending a National Cadet Activity, just vary the flash on it per each activity.

Thus "Hawk" develops an orange flash with some distinctive shield, a blue one for Blue Beret (change the name of the activity to something more "functional" and keep the physical blue beret as a homage to it.  Maybe a flash for each Wing encampment that can obtain a "blessing" from National.  Limit wear to one flash.

That is my attempt at a solution.

[Pylon]

If there is to be "special activity" items, my I suggest uniformity?  Lets say, in keeping with tradition, one beret authorized for attending a National Cadet Activity, just vary the flash on it per each activity.

Thus "Hawk" develops an orange flash with some distinctive shield, a blue one for Blue Beret (change the name of the activity to something more "functional" and keep the physical blue beret as a homage to it.  Maybe a flash for each Wing encampment that can obtain a "blessing" from National.  Limit wear to one flash.

That is my attempt at a solution.

I do not agree at all.  There already exist uniform special activity items.  There is no need to create anything more outside of this system.

Members completing a national activity can wear a patch on the BDUs (whether it be NBB and Hawk or NFA or COS or NESA)

Members attending an NCSA earn the NCSA ribbon for the blues.


Why should two activities of our dozens be granted special status outside of an already established and functioning system of recognizing activity attendance?

[Stonewall]

I believe I've been thinking about this all wrong thoughout 21 years of CAP service.  Instead of patches, ascots, berets, ribbons, pistol belts, whistles, orange hats, and pledge pins, we need to copy the Boy Scouts and just wear a sash.



That way we can wear everything we've earned with either uniform.

[mikeylikey]

^ I see you are missing your Merritt badge for being so freaking gey. 

[Stonewall]

^ I see you are missing your Merritt badge for being so freaking gey. 

Yeah, you done with that?  I meant to get that from you...

Was a boy scout for all of 6 months.

[Major Carrales]

If there is to be "special activity" items, my I suggest uniformity?  Lets say, in keeping with tradition, one beret authorized for attending a National Cadet Activity, just vary the flash on it per each activity.

Thus "Hawk" develops an orange flash with some distinctive shield, a blue one for Blue Beret (change the name of the activity to something more "functional" and keep the physical blue beret as a homage to it.  Maybe a flash for each Wing encampment that can obtain a "blessing" from National.  Limit wear to one flash.

That is my attempt at a solution.

I do not agree at all.  There already exist uniform special activity items.  There is no need to create anything more outside of this system.

Members completing a national activity can wear a patch on the BDUs (whether it be NBB and Hawk or NFA or COS or NESA)

Members attending an NCSA earn the NCSA ribbon for the blues.


Why should two activities of our dozens be granted special status outside of an already established and functioning system of recognizing activity attendance?

I just presented a solution as a reaction to subject matter.  I know it is the tenor of these forums to, for the majority of the times, rant and complain instead of presenting solutions.

Fact is, the ascots, whistles and the rest of Hawk were being taken up to OFFICIAL WEAR SYSTEM WIDE (yes, capital letters), and it seems like numerous more Wing and Regions have activities that rival or equal the these...why not have a system in place that aurhotizes 1, count them 1, special uniform item (a beret, which appears on these forum more times than not indicating they are things many people want) with a patch/flash (which would repalce the uniform patches on BDUs)

Require then to have the patrol cap and beret, and all is well.

[jb512]

No offense to anyone specifically, but there sure has been a lot of whining on this board about berets, ranger tabs, and other similar paraphernalia.

I don't see why we can't have an "elite" program (for lack of a better term) and let those people wear something that actually looks "tough". 

Heaven forbid. 

We're stuck with cheesy smurf blue patches and grey slides and there doesn't seem to be much we can do about it.  The USAFAUX advocates may flame me, but at least the new corporate white/blues is a step toward a clean, professional looking uniform without all the lettering everywhere.  When shaved and shaped properly, a beret looks good, and I think we should treat our hawk and NBB the way the RM treats SF, Ranger, PJ, and other tough schools.

Everyone complains about low standards in CAP, but when someone raises the bar and wants to award people for going the distance they complain.  Give it a rest and recognize those guys for what they're doing.  I know that if I ever crash, I'd want them to come looking for me...

On that note, I like the way that our GSARSS here in TXWG do it, nice and simple.  They wear solid black ball caps with their GT badge on it.  Looks good.

/rant

[Flying Pig]

and I think we should treat our hawk and NBB the way the RM treats SF, Ranger, PJ, and other tough schools.

Eeeeeek....that may be a stretch.....

[jb512]

and I think we should treat our hawk and NBB the way the RM treats SF, Ranger, PJ, and other tough schools.

Eeeeeek....that may be a stretch.....

Unfortunately, I think you're right...

[flyerthom]

I believe I've been thinking about this all wrong thoughout 21 years of CAP service.  Instead of patches, ascots, berets, ribbons, pistol belts, whistles, orange hats, and pledge pins, we need to copy the Boy Scouts and just wear a sash.


That way we can wear everything we've earned with either uniform.

And issue a CAP batliff instead of sword. All pro words in comm will be in Klingon.

[CAPSGT]

Here's an issue to think about with the headgear.  In the Air Force, you wear special headgear (such as berets) only while you are assigned to a unit that wears that particular piece of felt.  For example, if you are a Security Forces dude or dudette you would wear your blue beret while you are with a Security Forces unit.  Say you go off in another direction and suddenly you are doing supply with a logistics unit.....no more blue beret.

This is why the old rule made sense.  You wore the things at the activity and only at the activity.  Now, if people choose not to follow the rules, that is a different story.

[Stonewall]

... I think we should treat our hawk and NBB the way the RM treats SF, Ranger, PJ, and other tough schools.

Because NBB is not elite.  Other than the special activity being named after a hat, it has nothing to do with special skills, tactics, or certifications.  Hawk, well, you're talking about looking neat, nice and well formed with a beret.  Well, what Hawk issues is none of the above.  Once again, this is what an "elite" Hawk grad showed up wearing to a squadron meeting in FL:  Starched crushed/ranger rolled BDU cap, white ascot, white pistol belt, whistle, ranger tab and the ranger patch.  To me, it looks like the Vanguard catalog website threw up on her.

[lordmonar]

Here's an issue to think about with the headgear.  In the Air Force, you wear special headgear (such as berets) only while you are assigned to a unit that wears that particular piece of felt.  For example, if you are a Security Forces dude or dudette you would wear your blue beret while you are with a Security Forces unit.  Say you go off in another direction and suddenly you are doing supply with a logistics unit.....no more blue beret.

Cops assigned to intellegence units keep their berets.  So there goes that example right down the toilet.

[Stonewall]

Cops assigned to intellegence units keep their berets.  So there goes that example right down the toilet.

That's because they're still cops, just doing cop work at a different unit.  Mike was talking about changing AFSCs.  Just because you were a cop doesn't mean you keep the beret.  Skill badge, yes, but "police" shield and beret, uh buh bye.

[isuhawkeye]

so a ranger in a streight leg infantry unit would, or would not wear his tab??

[Stonewall]

so a ranger in a streight leg infantry unit would, or would not wear his tab??

The tab is equal to a badge, i.e. jump wings.  But we're talking headgear.  If you are a PJ in a Pararescue Squadorn, you'd wear a maroon beret.  But let's say you switched over and became the first sergeant of a non-PJ squadron, you'd lose the beret but keep all the skill badges like Airborne, HALO, SCUBA, etc.