All, some, or none vs. All or none

[♠SARKID♠]

Question thats been bugging me - Why did nationals change the 39-1 reference about the wear of ribbons for cadets from "all, some, or none" to "all, or none?"  Senior members retain the option, but cadets have to wear everything.  Frankly, I'm sick and tired of walking around with more stuff on my uniform than Patton.  One would expect that if I have my Lindbergh, that I would already have my Curry, Arnold, Feik, Wright Bros, and Rickenbacker.  Why should we have to wear all of those ribbons when SMs don't have to?

[Short Field]

Life is unfair - and then you die.      

Seriously, the cadet program is more para-military with standardized uniforms, etc.  If we can just get the Seniors to wear ANY uniform we call it "success".

I always wear none.  I might wear a few one day but if I wear them all, it is nine rows - with wings on top.  To quote a friend of mine who is a USAF pararescueman, "It makes me feel like a Mexican General".

[SDF_Specialist]

I always wear none.  I might wear a few one day but if I wear them all, it is nine rows - with wings on top.  To quote a friend of mine who is a USAF pararescueman, "It makes me feel like a Mexican General".

Bueno

[♠SARKID♠]

Life is unfair - and then you die.   Evil   

Heh, very true.

Looking back on the post, it sounds a bit too much like I'm complaining about it.  I apologize for that; I'm really just trying to find their reasoning behind it.  It was well enough before, why didn't they leave it alone?

"It makes me feel like a Mexican General".

I know a guy on AFBlues that says the exact same thing.  I was gonna use that as my corollary on post 1, but opted for Patton.

[♠SARKID♠]

Okay, I just gave a thorough search of AFI36-2903, the AF uniform manual.  Turns out they require all ribbons and devices to be worn so I guess I can see where NHQ was coming from.

...I still don't like it.

[mikeylikey]

I could support Cadet Officers wearing only the highest Cadet Achievement or Milestone ribbon and removing all others.  That would be cool. 

I think when I was a Cadet we had the option of all or some, but never none.  Anyone remember that like 12 years ago??

[SarDragon]

I usually wear all of my ribbons (12), but I only wear corporate uniforms, so that doesn't include my military ribbons. If I could wear them all, I'd probably pick and choose to still wear about 12.

[jimmydeanno]

I usually wear all of my ribbons (12), but I only wear corporate uniforms, so that doesn't include my military ribbons. If I could wear them all, I'd probably pick and choose to still wear about 12.

That might be the reason right there.  There are retired/prior service senior members who if they were required to wear "all ribbons" might have to find a 45 (15 rows) ribbon holder.  At least this way it gives them the option of picking all CAP, all military or a selective bunch of both.

My wife for instance is 5'4" and about 110, she has a small frame.  With her mix of AF and CAP decorations she has about 30 ribbons, which become too tall and look really awkward (since it comes to the top of her epaulet).  She can't use a 4 across because the panel of the jacket isn't that wide and it would go under her arm.

I don't have any issues because my jacket is larger and I only have 18 to deal with, so I can fit those with my GTL & Observer wings and be fine.

[SSgt Rudin]

I usually wear all of my ribbons (12), but I only wear corporate uniforms, so that doesn't include my military ribbons. If I could wear them all, I'd probably pick and choose to still wear about 12.

I wear all my CAP ribbons (11) and then my highest Navy award (NAM). I think that cadets should have the option to remove their phase 1 and 2 ribbons upon receiving their Mitchell.
The problem you get when you say "All, Some, None" is that is the only guide line you are giving. In the Navy they allow "All, top three, or none" this gives a guide line as to what "some" means. Also by just saying "some", cadets will pick and choose based on what looks good or cool, or forms a cool pattern.

[arajca]

IIRC, the loss of the "some" option came at the same NB meeting the NCAC proposed prohibiting - not making optional or providing guidance on what 'some' should mean - cadet officers from wearing Phase I and II ribbons. The NCAC proposal got shot down and the "all or none" got presented and passed instead.

[James Shaw]

I have 31 total between all my service time. I only wear my CAP on my CAP uniforms corporate or otherwise. My CAP boss the National Historian Col. Len Blascovich prefers for me to wear all of them . He feels that as a Historian I should "model" and be able to share what I wear. Since I only have two people in my chain of command it is not hard to get their feelings.

[lordmonar]

The "All, Some, or None" issue has seveal aspects.

I understand from first hand experince what a pain it is to put together a ribbon rack....I got to special order one four across and one three across ribbon racks and glue them together to get all my AD and CAP ribbons onto them.

Until recently we had the problem of "nothing above the notch in the lapel" but they removed that issue.

On a philospical level....I have a problem with the "some" option as that "devalues" all the ribbons that you deem not important enough to wear.

On a traditional level....the USAF has almost always been an "all or none" community (we played with "some" for a while but it went away).  AS the USAF's Auxillary (yes I know about the AFAM issue but that is a different thread) we should follow the lead of our parent service as much as possible.

IMHO you should wear all of your award...even if it makes you look like a Mexican Corpral.  It's not my faul or anyone's fault that CAP has so many ribbons and that it has awarded them to you.  If you earned them you should show them off with pride.  Even the lowly curry ribbon or membership ribbon.  It tells the world that you did something important and enfoces that tradition to the members who only have one or two ribbons.  If we say.....that it is just a give away, I don't care about it....you are demotivating the new people by saying their accomplishments do not mean anything to you.

If CAP has too many ribbons...then maybe we should look into consolidating some of them (for example our SM "level" ribbons can be converted to just a single ribbon and you would wear pip on them as you gain level, and the cadet acheivement ribbons can be consolidated into 4 Phase ribbons with pips.)

I would advocate that military ribbons on CAP unifroms be optional.  But ALL CAP ribbons should be worn on the service coat.

[DC]

I personally think, at least with cadet ribbons, that there should be a 'some' option for the service uniform. I think it should be limited to allowing cadets to wear all activity and service ribbons as well as all of their milestone ribbons and their last achievement ribbon. I think that a full rack should be mandatory on service dress though. To me the allows cadets to simplify their rack (and I know the larger mine gets the more a PITA it becomes) but still wear their ribbons.

As to devaluing the achievements be not wearing the ribbons, I don't think so. I'm every bit as proud of each achievement as I was the day I got it, and to me the ribbon is not the achievement. It is a symbol you put on your uniform to display your accomplishments to others, but by having, for example, the mitchell, it is known to anyone who can read a ribbon rack that you earned all that came before it. I don't feel the need to impress anyone with the size of my ribbon rack. I already know what I have accomplished, and I don't have to look like a peacock to prove myself.

[ZigZag911]

At one point in time, the reg was to remove achievement ribbons once Mitchell was earned....a return to that rule would relieve this problem.

[arajca]

At one point in time, the reg was to remove achievement ribbons once Mitchell was earned....a return to that rule would relieve this problem.

That idea resulted in the loss of the 'some' option.

[♠SARKID♠]

Well now, heres something new - the regulations give no specific direction for the corporate aviator shirt (which I wear).  It simply says

CAP ribbons may be worn centered above the left breast pocket. No military ribbons may be worn.

[mikeylikey]

^ I would imagine you need to defer to the guidance for the other uniforms and ribbons.  Yet one more oversight on the creator of this uniform.  Man, we need to get rid of that guy. 

[Duke Dillio]

Could you imagine Gen. Patraeus having to wear all his ribbons if he was a LTC in the CAP?

[mikeylikey]

^ I have some of that bling!

[SAR-EMT1]

Whats with the Air Assault badge and the Jump Wings being on the pocket flap?

Second: What is the huge thing above the ribbons on his right side? (our left)