COMMENDATION AWARD

[ZigZag911]

Distinguish what level of command gave the commander commendation?  Whatever for?

[SAR-EMT1]

Is anyone planning on typing this up for submission? If not I'll do it, but might need some help with finese.

[JohnKachenmeister]

What's the consensus on the suggestion?

1.  Suggest that CAP request the Air Force to manage our award system in total, using AF awards and eliminating ALL non-military CAP awards?

2.  Suggest that CAP request the AF to award certain AF awards to CAP personnel who perform actions on Air Force Authorized Missions in lieu of CAP awards?

or

3.  Establish a direct-parallel CAP award program with each AF award having a CAP counterpart award?

[Major Carrales]

Uh...what's all this then?

I think CAP needs to award CAP awards.  They should likely mirror USAF type awards.  Some USAF ribbons might be appropriate for CAP when on USAF Assigned missions, however, I do not support handing CAP business over to the USAF. 

The USAF has its own to consider, something tells me this idea of asking the USAF to manage CAP awards would not be a priority to them and would likely be an annoyance.

[JayT]

Uh...what's all this then?

I think CAP needs to award CAP awards.  They should likely mirror USAF type awards.  Some USAF ribbons might be appropriate for CAP when on USAF Assigned missions, however, I do not support handing CAP business over to the USAF. 

The USAF has its own to consider, something tells me this idea of asking the USAF to manage CAP awards would not be a priority to them and would likely be an annoyance.

Amen Major. This is a classic case of some members fighting for a solution to a problem that no one else thinks is a problem.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Who's fighting?

I just asked what the consensus was to clarify what the suggestion, if any such suggestion is made, will be.

I think we can all agree that the number of CAP awards is so great and the requirements to earn them in many cases is so low, that CAP awards generally have become trivialized.

There are several solutions to this, and I listed at least 3 that have been discussed.

There has been talk of making a suggested change to the regulations, but I don't know what change is supported by the most folks.

[SAR-EMT1]

What's the consensus on the suggestion?

1.  Suggest that CAP request the Air Force to manage our award system in total, using AF awards and eliminating ALL non-military CAP awards?

2.  Suggest that CAP request the AF to award certain AF awards to CAP personnel who perform actions on Air Force Authorized Missions in lieu of CAP awards?

or

3.  Establish a direct-parallel CAP award program with each AF award having a CAP counterpart award?

I think its a mix of #2 AND substituting USAF awards for CAP awards in situations where the criteria are the same or similar.
Also to a lesser extent awarding CAP members USAF awards that we would otherwise be eligible for.

Possibilities include:
Air Medal - criterion PLUS the fact that we got the first two.
GWOTSM - Many reasons not the least of which would be air intercept missions or CD
flights, or other similar taskings.
Air Force Volunteer Service Medal
Air Force Longevity - case may be argued that we qualify
USAF Achievement Medal OR USAF Civillian Achievement Medal
- personally would prefer the former
Humanitarian Service Medal
- However the DoD awarded the Armed Forces Service Medal to all uniformed personnel for efforts in regard the Katrina and Rita
( did the CG Aux get this or just the PUC ? )
USAF Small Arms Marksmanship
Armed Forces Reserve Medal - currently given to Reserve, Guard and some Civies, case could be argued for us as well.


I think that by doing this we (I) are (am) directly trying to PREVENT # 3
- #3 would it devalue our position in regards to the USAF -

[RiverAux]

Humanitarian Service Medal
- However the DoD awarded the Armed Forces Service Medal to all uniformed personnel for efforts in regard the Katrina and Rita
( did the CG Aux get this or just the PUC ? )

CG Aux members in general only received the Presidential Unit Citation for Katrina. I suspect certain individual members received other applicable awards, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.   

[JohnKachenmeister]

What's the consensus on the suggestion?

1.  Suggest that CAP request the Air Force to manage our award system in total, using AF awards and eliminating ALL non-military CAP awards?

2.  Suggest that CAP request the AF to award certain AF awards to CAP personnel who perform actions on Air Force Authorized Missions in lieu of CAP awards?

or

3.  Establish a direct-parallel CAP award program with each AF award having a CAP counterpart award?

I think its a mix of #2 AND substituting USAF awards for CAP awards in situations where the criteria are the same or similar.
Also to a lesser extent awarding CAP members USAF awards that we would otherwise be eligible for.

Possibilities include:
Air Medal - criterion PLUS the fact that we got the first two.
GWOTSM - Many reasons not the least of which would be air intercept missions or CD
flights, or other similar taskings.
Air Force Volunteer Service Medal
Air Force Longevity - case may be argued that we qualify
USAF Achievement Medal OR USAF Civillian Achievement Medal
- personally would prefer the former
Humanitarian Service Medal
- However the DoD awarded the Armed Forces Service Medal to all uniformed personnel for efforts in regard the Katrina and Rita
( did the CG Aux get this or just the PUC ? )
USAF Small Arms Marksmanship
Armed Forces Reserve Medal - currently given to Reserve, Guard and some Civies, case could be argued for us as well.


I think that by doing this we (I) are (am) directly trying to PREVENT # 3
- #3 would it devalue our position in regards to the USAF -

I agree, and I would add the Distinguished Flying Cross for heroism in aerial flight.  Neither the Air Medal nor the DFC are exclusively combat awards, but combat increases the opportunities for heroism, to be sure.

We fly as targets in direct support of Noble Eagle, we SHOULD get the GWOT service medal after 60 nonconsecutive days.

Also the AF Commendation Medal.

[RiverAux]

I can't imagine that there are many, if any, CAP members or even CAP units, flying 60 days in a row on those sorts of missions.

[mikeylikey]

Everything else looks good, but I would remove the GWOT Service Medal.  Unless you patrolled the skies after 9/11 or were a guardsman ordered to defend the airports therafter, leave that one for the military. 

And the AF Volunteer Service medal leave out too.....that is given to service members who also volunteer for things like CAP.  Not CAP volunteering for an AFAM.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The wording of the GWOT Service medal criteria would be inclusive of CAP target-profile flights in support of Noble Eagle.  I agree that 60 nonconsecutive days would probably exclude most CAP guys anyway.  60 nonconsecutive (or 30 consecutive) are required to qualify for the award.

I also meant to point out that the Volunteer Medal is already awarded to military guys who volunteer for CAP duty.  Thanks for backing me up on that one, I forgot to include a comment on that.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I can't imagine that there are many, if any, CAP members or even CAP units, flying 60 days in a row on those sorts of missions.

30 days consecutive OR 60 days nonconsecutive.

[Short Field]

If you want to earn a USAF award, then join the USAF where you don't get to volunteer for where you go and what you do.  

The Volunteer Service Medal (not just a USAF medal) was created to recognize those service members who took the "extra" time to support the community.  Although it did tighten my jaw to see some people who had to leave work early every other Friday to get to their volunteer duty...

USAF awards have been cheapened enough over the years, but it would really cheapen them to start awarding them to CAP members.  Sorry, but that is just the way I feel about it - and so does every senior NCO and senior Officer (active and retired) I have discussed this with.

[JohnKachenmeister]

So... What is the consensus of the suggestion?

I would support a combination of items 2 and 3.  

-- Suggest that CAP petition the AF to include CAP members as AF members for certain awards when exhibiting heroism, exemplary conduct, or significant achievement on AF missions.

--  Streamline the CAP awards to coincide to a greater extent with the USAF awards.  CAP awards would be for "Normal" duty outside of AFAM's.

Examples:  Why do we need a "Cadet" and a "Senior" recruiting ribbon?  Why do we issue separate awards for multiple missions in Cadet O-flights, SAR, CD, etc.?  Why not a single "Aeronautical Achievement Medal" for say... 100 mission sorties regardless of type?  

[JohnKachenmeister]

If you want to earn a USAF award, then join the USAF where you don't get to volunteer for where you go and what you do.  

The Volunteer Service Medal (not just a USAF medal) was created to recognize those service members who took the "extra" time to support the community.  Although it did tighten my jaw to see some people who had to leave work early every other Friday to get to their volunteer duty...

USAF awards have been cheapened enough over the years, but it would really cheapen them to start awarding them to CAP members.  Sorry, but that is just the way I feel about it - and so does every senior NCO and senior Officer (active and retired) I have discussed this with.

Don't say everyone... I'm a retired officer, and I think the proposal is worth considering.

Remember, these awards would be limited to actions performed on AF missions.  If a CAP member exhibits heroism while doing a job for the AF, why would the AF not want to recognize that fact?

[RiverAux]

Kach,
I don't think any petitioning is actually necessary.  Technically, if you look at the AF awards manual, there is a procedure in place for recomending AF awards to civilians.  I think there are two things that need to be done:
1.  Insert language into the CAP awards manual (that the AF agrees to) on how CAP members can make recommendations (and to whom those recommendations should be directed -- obviously CAP-USAF state director who forwards them to CAP-USAF) for AF awards.

2.  Change to AFI-10-2701 which states which AF awards CAP members are eligible for and which backs up the CAP awards regulation, and sets out specifically how CAP-USAF would handle any recommendations for AF awards for CAP members and the process to get any approvals needed beyond CAP-USAF. 

[ZigZag911]

Kach, concur on a blending of #s2 & 3.

Any chance there is already an awards committee @ National parallel to recent uniform review board, chaired I believe by Lt Col Dave White??

[Major Carrales]

Ho-hum, why do we want to bother the USAF with this?  I can see it now...

At some USAF installation a committee meets to discuss the award of medals and commendations for the given period.

General J. T. Wash: "Outstanding, let us get to work"

Major I. M. Arredondo: "Uh, sir, we have some 20,000 more awards to process before we can recommend they be submitted for processing and award."

General J. T. Wash: "What?  Let me see some of those" (reads citations, verbalizes aloud) "Capt Eustice Capman awarded the USAF Commendation...what the heck is a "CADET SQUADRON?"

Major I. M. Arredondo: "Uh, sir, that is...I believe, a CAP squadron."

General J. T. Wash: "Combat Air Patrol?  That makes no sense.  What the hell is a 'TEXAS WING?'"

Major I. M. Arredondo: "Sir, that would be a Civil Air Patrol unit."

General J. T. Wash: "You mean to tell me we are wasting our time with all this paperwork for Civilians when Airmen are going unserviced?"

Major I. M. Arredondo: "Seems so, Sir.  Still, they represent a valuable part of the USAF family!"

General J. T. Wash: "Oh really?  You mean we should spend the time rejecting this here commendation for 'going beyond the call of duty for waiting for Cadet Patents to pick up their Children in a bad neighborhood', or this one 'Saved a waitress at Deny's from possibly pouring scalding water on a Cadet."

Major I. M. Arredondo: "No, Sir.  I mean like these...er...this one's for pulling survivors from a buring crash, or this one where they participated vigilantly looking for brush fires and lastly this one for their work during earthquake and hurricane relief."

General J. T. Wash: "Shouldn't they be giving these things out.  Arredondo, draft a letter to the Sec of the Air Force en re this matter"

End Scene!

The point of this play is to show the unecessary amount of work the USAF would have if they had to take on CAP awards and the occasionally frequent frivoulous documents that make their way up the chain. 

Then one would likely suggest we put some sort of complicated filter on the matter on the CAP side to mitigate this.  More levels of CAP to add to the already strained blokes giving all to accomplish the missions.

For every well deserved USAF award request how many do you think there will be where some guy gets the idea that "hey, I can put in for this...its not against the regs.  What is the worst that could happen?  My Group CC is a bud, he'll put it through."

Sorry, I just don't think the USAF has the time to deal with CAP medals.  Unless it was someone who might monitor CAP awards and make the recommendation from the USAF side.  That way, all they ahve to do is review CAP award committee documents.  But, wouldn't that be awarding someone twice?

My gut feeling is leave CAP awards for CAP, design it to parallel the USAF, but they don't need to have to deal with that.  They have wars to win!

[Hawk200]

Air Medal - criterion PLUS the fact that we got the first two.

Agreed, we have them in our history. Not even a stretch, really. And based on the criteria set forth, this could be awarded now to any CAP member meeting the criteria. The only thing that would reduce eligibility would be defining the "serving in any capacity in or with the Armed Forces".

Corporate missions would not be eligible due to that little clause. A CAP unique award would be appropriate.

GWOTSM - Many reasons not the least of which would be air intercept missions or CD flights, or other similar taskings.

The GWOT-S has set criteria. Which requires direct contribution to the war on terrorism.  Air intercepts and CD flights aren't. Manufacturing criteria just so our members can get the award isn't kosher.

Air Force Volunteer Service Medal

One, it is the "Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal", and is not an Air Force only decoration.

Some reading on that one: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/MIL%20OUTSTANDING%20VOLUNTEER%20SERVICE%20MEDAL1.html

As it shows, it is service to the civilian community by an Armed Forces member. CAP members aren't Armed Forces members, they're civilians contributing to their community in a paramilitary organization.

Air Force Longevity - case may be argued that we qualify

We have a Red Service ribbon, there is no need for us to get an Air Force award too. Besides, I have an AF Longevity Ribbon, as do more than a few others here. How would you go about accounting for CAP time on the same award?

USAF Achievement Medal OR USAF Civillian Achievement Medal

Not sure what this would get us. In the military, an Achievement medal equals things that CAP doesn't even have. Whats it do for us? Not sure I see the point of getting a military award to just get one.

Humanitarian Service Medal
- However the DoD awarded the Armed Forces Service Medal to all uniformed personnel for efforts in regard the Katrina and Rita

Our members have worked side by side with military members, and the spirit of this award is fitting. It would require a change at the DOD level for us to be eligible, but if this were proposed, I would support this in a heartbeat.

USAF Small Arms Marksmanship

Not sure even why so many people want this. We don't need firearms to do our jobs, we're not even supposed to be carrying them for normal operations. Any airman can be required to pick a weapon and use it, the ribbon just shows a proficiency. There is no such requirement for CAP members. For CAP, it's simple bling hunting.

Armed Forces Reserve Medal - currently given to Reserve, Guard and some Civies, case could be argued for us as well.

Not sure where you got the idea that civilians get this, it is an Armed Forces Reserve Medal.

Some light reading on the AFRM: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/RESERVE_MEDAL.htm

CAP members do not even remotely qualify for this. CAP members are nowhere near the same type of volunteer as any military member. Reserve component members are subject to orders, enlistments, UCMJ, and several other conditions and benefits of being a military member. They don't have the option of saying "I'm a volunteer, you can't order me!".

My response on some of these may be harsh, but I'm being pretty straightforward. Responses on the AF side could range from a hearty laugh and a trip to the round file, to you being dressed down with a "What the devil are you thinking?"

I can appreciate certain military awards to CAP members, as long as the current criteria fit. Trying to revamp the military decorations system just so CAP members can get them is likely to cause the military to consider us pretenders and fools. We can't afford that image.

The best resource on military awards, decs, and some badges: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil

I would suggest reading it before suggesting that CAP members are "eligible for" or "entitled to" Armed Forces awards. It will save problems in the future.