COMMENDATION AWARD

[DNall]

hawk > agreed.
Kach > state/fed decs in the guard is a good example.

[JayT]

It is possible to have parallel awards systems... AF awards for exemplary actions on AF missions and CAP awards for training/Corporate missions.  The National Guard has such a system, where state awards can be worn subordinate to federal awards.

I think, though, that ribbons in CAP have gotten out of hand.  We get ribbons for almost everything, to the point that only a few end up being meaningful, and they get lost in the crowd.

I would like to see the whole thing scrapped, and if an action did not meet the criteria for an AF award by the AF, then you will just have to keep wearing a blank jacket.

Or... you could enlist and earn a few on active duty.  That's always an option!

Maybe put a letter "A" attachment on the ribbons for awards earned in "Auxiliary" status, but the awards should be regular USAF awards.

While I certainly agree that CAP awards have gotten a little out of hand (esepcially for cadets), I don't think that regular AF awards are the answer. Lets stop awarding some of our own ribbons then. But turning to regular AF ribbons seems like a.....using the means the justify the end.

Problem: Too many CAP ribbons
Solution: Replace CAP ribbons with harder to earn AF ribbons.

There's a disconnect somewhere.

I just don't see this being a good idea at all. Like I said, I'm not a member of the military, so I would feel a little dirty about being awarded an AF medal. I don't believe it would give me any more credabilty with anyone, and I could just imagine the reactions of some members who have what looks like military rank insignia, and now military medals on their uniform.

Just because an Airmen got a medal for his actions during Katrina doesn't mean a CAP guy doing a different job should have it. What about all of the firemen, police, paramedics, and aid workers? They have their own award systems in place.

[DNall]

We're not firemen, police, ems, etc. While on AFAMs we are by law (primarily for liability & injury benefits purposes) civilian employees of the AF acting as legal agents (instermentality) of the fed govt.

And by the way, an amn who did no more than load supplies for a few hours in the course of his regular work day five states away got a HSM. A CAP aircrew that landed a multi-hundred thousand dollar aircraft between two moving semis on a freeway w/o damage or injury while conducting air recon on orders for 1AF so they could diagnose the degree of damage to levies & flood levels by GPS overlay... they got no recognition.

[JayT]

We're not firemen, police, ems, etc. While on AFAMs we are by law (primarily for liability & injury benefits purposes) civilian employees of the AF acting as legal agents (instermentality) of the fed govt.

And by the way, an amn who did no more than load supplies for a few hours in the course of his regular work day five states away got a HSM. A CAP aircrew that landed a multi-hundred thousand dollar aircraft between two moving semis on a freeway w/o damage or injury while conducting air recon on orders for 1AF so they could diagnose the degree of damage to levies & flood levels by GPS overlay... they got no recognition.

Well, they should have gotten a CAP DSM or something similar, plus the whole lot should have picked up a Unit Citation.

[isuhawkeye]

http://isuhawkeye.blogspot.com/2006/11/ia-national-guard-recognizes-cap.html


http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1033.0

Just an option that has been done in the past

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree it is probably too late to return to the days when there was one set of awards, and we got them if we earned them.  We have a parallel system, I suspect I know why, and the serpents cannot be put back in the box.

I also do not care about cadets getting massive awards.  Nobody is going to mistake a 15-year old with 20 ribbons for an actual war hero.  Also, in keeping with the ROTC and Junior ROTC programs, we should award ribbons for perfect attendance, passing tests, honor roll at school, etc.  None of these would transfer to the officer uniform.

The solution, as I see it, would be to establish CAP awards parallel to USAF awards, and limit awards to those which the AF already has.  So instead of scores of ribbons, we might boil it down to a dozen or so, max.

[DNall]

I tried that John, I got something on my other computer I'll put up in a bit. It knocked out 10 CAP ribbons (mostly low end of the spectrum), added two (aligning w/ AF), and made 10 (non-combat) AF decs avail (mostly higher level, incl unit citations). The AF decs under that would be much rarer than the CAP ribbons being eliminated, all of which are debatable, so net effect is reduction & more logical approach. I was a little disappointed with how it turned out.

Reason cadets don't get honor roll, attendance, etc ribbons is we aren't a school based program. Cadets are young, duh. They're easily motivated with crap like ribbons. A little clean up & a logical approach might be nice but I think it's okay now. What I might do is say cadet officers take off all the previous achievment ribbons & just wear the highest, or just phase awards. That'd pull it back down a bit before it goes over their shoulder.

[mikeylikey]

What I might do is say cadet officers take off all the previous achievment ribbons & just wear the highest, or just phase awards.

I would second that.

[ddelaney103]

We're not firemen, police, ems, etc. While on AFAMs we are by law (primarily for liability & injury benefits purposes) civilian employees of the AF acting as legal agents (instermentality) of the fed govt.

Fine, then authorize Air Force _civilian_ awards for CAP work: they already exist:

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0106/00_PDFs/54-55_Awards_Decor.pdf

[Bluelakes 13]

What I might do is say cadet officers take off all the previous achievment ribbons & just wear the highest, or just phase awards.

HERE, HERE!

:clap:

[JayT]

What I might do is say cadet officers take off all the previous achievment ribbons & just wear the highest, or just phase awards.

I would second that.

Make it all cadets!

[JohnKachenmeister]

We're not firemen, police, ems, etc. While on AFAMs we are by law (primarily for liability & injury benefits purposes) civilian employees of the AF acting as legal agents (instermentality) of the fed govt.

Fine, then authorize Air Force _civilian_ awards for CAP work: they already exist:

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0106/00_PDFs/54-55_Awards_Decor.pdf

Were not civil servants, either.  Those awards are for civil servants.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I tried that John, I got something on my other computer I'll put up in a bit. It knocked out 10 CAP ribbons (mostly low end of the spectrum), added two (aligning w/ AF), and made 10 (non-combat) AF decs avail (mostly higher level, incl unit citations). The AF decs under that would be much rarer than the CAP ribbons being eliminated, all of which are debatable, so net effect is reduction & more logical approach. I was a little disappointed with how it turned out.

Reason cadets don't get honor roll, attendance, etc ribbons is we aren't a school based program. Cadets are young, duh. They're easily motivated with crap like ribbons. A little clean up & a logical approach might be nice but I think it's okay now. What I might do is say cadet officers take off all the previous achievment ribbons & just wear the highest, or just phase awards. That'd pull it back down a bit before it goes over their shoulder.

Now that you mention it, I think I remember your suggestion.

I think such a plan would go over well with the RLO's, but there aren't many RLO's left in CAP.

[DNall]

What I might do is say cadet officers take off all the previous achievment ribbons & just wear the highest, or just phase awards.

I would second that.

Make it all cadets!

No. We're not having rotating ribbon of the month. They aren't putting on a ribbon one month & taking it off forever a couple months later. CAC has talked about what I mentioned. Clasps are not an option cause they tear up ribbons, particularly with repeated changes.

We're not firemen, police, ems, etc. While on AFAMs we are by law (primarily for liability & injury benefits purposes) civilian employees of the AF acting as legal agents (instermentality) of the fed govt.

Fine, then authorize Air Force _civilian_ awards for CAP work: they already exist:

I'm aware of that. They are for DAF civil service employees. It's actually more of a problem to award those than it is mil decorations, and it's very debatable if they can be worn in CAP. They cannot be worn by mil personnel for service thru CAP & would get no promotion points for them. They are also far less applicable to what we're doing.

I really don't understand why people have so much trouble with the idea of military awards. Half of them are restricted to mil personnel, we're not touching those, but the rest are wide open to any civilian regardless of affiliation with any military. Thousands have been given to civilians for over a hundred years, including for non-combat contributions. It's really no big deal. ALL we'd be asking for is to run the approval process more like the AF rather than the way it is run for random guy off the street w/ no affiliation. That's completely appropriate & has massive benefits for CAP & the govt.

[FLCAP390707]

About the Commander's Commendation.  Should there not be a distinguishment from National, Region, and Wing CC's?  Something like Silver Star for NCC, Bronze Star for RCC, and plain for WCC.

What do you think?

[mikeylikey]

^ Why? 

[FLCAP390707]

There should be a designation as to from what level of command the CC came.

[Pylon]

About the Commander's Commendation.  Should there not be a distinguishment from National, Region, and Wing CC's?  Something like Silver Star for NCC, Bronze Star for RCC, and plain for WCC.

What do you think?

They already distinguish it.  If you earn the Commander's Commendation from the National Commander, you have a silver star on it.  If it was awarded by Region or Wing, no silver star. I think that's pretty distinct.

[Hawk200]

There should be a designation as to from what level of command the CC came.

Why? Why should a Commendation from one level be any more distinguishable from another? Both are still commendations. The higher level commander could easily swing a higher dec, there would be very few people that could question it.

[SAR-EMT1]

I think that for this idea to be submitted it would get more attention coming from a current or prior service type.

-- Just because the AF is more likely to listen to those folks.