Flight Suit Wear

[Pylon]

The current uniform manual is vague about several aspects of wear of the AF-style green flight suit. 

In some places it does not restrict wear to anybody in particular.    On the figures showing its wear, it specifies "(Flight Crews Only)" but does not define who qualifies as a flight crew member and who does not. 

It restricts wear to the "duty performance site" and essential stops en route but does not define what is a duty performance site or who determines what it is.

If you were to make a recommendation for change or clarification of the wear guidelines for the AF-style green flight suit what would they be?    Some ideas include:
wear by CAP members with any aeronautical ratings at any time, so long as its an acceptable uniform for that activity to the commander; 
wear by any CAP member, regardless of rating or lack thereof, while flying in CAP aircraft or perhaps while participating in an activity related to flying CAP aircraft; 
wear only by pilots, observers and scanners only while on missions and training;
wear by any CAP member, regardless of ratings or lack thereof, at any activity where it is acceptable wear to the commander...

What do you all think?  It needs to be clarified in the next CAPM 39-1 revisions.

[AlphaSigOU]

How's 'dis? 

Here's the blurb I put in my CAP Flight Dress Uniform Guide (it's here on CAPTalk, just search):

WHO MAY WEAR THE FLIGHT SUIT AND/OR UTILITY UNIFORM

The USAF-style green and CAP blue corporate flight suit is to be worn only by aircrew members
(pilots, observers, scanners) when engaged in or training for flight duty. Flight duty includes
preparation, flight, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flightline duties associated with aircraft
operations. The CAP blue utility uniform may be worn by all personnel regardless of flight status.

GENERAL WEAR INSTRUCTIONS (adapted from AFI 36-2903)

Note: while these instructions have not yet been adapted by CAP, it is HIGHLY recommended
that one follow them, especially within an Air Force installation.

All aircrew members will have sleeves rolled down to the wrist at all times. All pockets will be
zipped and all pocket items will remain concealed. (Exception: Pens and pencils may show when
carried in the left sleeve or right leg pen holders. The flight cap (USAF and CAP style flight suit
only) may be stored in either lower leg pocket without that pocket being fully zipped. A small
portion of the flight cap may be exposed while in the pocket. However, when the cap is removed,
the pocket must be fully zipped.

The pen flap over the left sleeve pocket may be removed. Resist the temptation of placing a
'morale patch' on the small piece of pile Velcro that remains. While CAP regulations are silent in
this regard, it is prohibited by Air Force regulations.

The flight suit and/or utility uniform may be worn off base under the same guidelines as the Battle
Dress Uniform (BDU) or CAP Distinctive Field Uniform (DFU). Aircrew members wearing the
green Air Force-style, CAP blue flight suit or utility uniform may make only essential stops en
route to and from the duty performance site. If a stop is essential, members must meet the proper
standards of neatness, cleanliness, and military image. Commanders may prescribe further limits
on the wear of flight suits and utility uniforms based on mission requirements and in the interest of
morale, health, and welfare of their personnel.

Essential stop: stop at the gas station or convenience store on/off base, or if you have to run a quick errand.

Think that'll work for a 39-1 revision?

[RiverAux]

Do cadets that want to go on o-rides in Pac Region have to wear flight suits? 

[Eclipse]

My Choice:

Wear only by pilots, observers and scanners only while on missions and training.

Wear by cadets only if they meet the above.

Wear should be restricted to missions or training where the member reasonably expects to be >IN< an aircraft during that activity.

Wear should be prohibited from wear for regular unit meetings, and for base staff not flying.

[Eclipse]

All aircrew members will have sleeves rolled down to the wrist at all times.

Resist the temptation of placing a 'morale patch' on the small piece of pile Velcro that remains. While CAP regulations are silent in this regard, it is prohibited by Air Force regulations.

YES PLEASE!

[ddelaney103]

I personally don't see any need to restrict it's use beyond no ground team use and no wear when a service or formal uniform is required.

In the AF and many joint postings, you can wear it in the office.  I see no reason to require a person to purchase another uniform just to wear to meetings.

Frankly, if non aircrew want to wear them to meetings, go ahead.  Since "leather nametag w/o wings = potential poser" in my book, I'd rather have them out in the open where I can watch them.

Cadets should have a "meeting UOD," and unless you have an all aircrew Cadet sqdn, I'm not seeing a Cadet wearing flightsuits except on missions.

[M.S.]

I'm with ddelaney on this one.


The USAF aircrews wear them whenever its acceptable to the commander or installation policy.  I don't see the big deal of a CAP pilot wearing one of our uniforms to the monthly senior safety briefing or a meeting.  The commander still has the ability and authority to set a uniform for each activity and meeting so why the big deal?  If the flight suit is inappropriate to wear there the uniform of the activity would reflect that anyways.

Especially given that the blue flight suit is fair game to wear wherever, and it uses the leather namepatch and same configuration as the green flight suit - and that the USAF allows regular wear of the same green flight suit -- i don't see why we would be so different on our wear policy?

My vote is to change it to wear it as another authorized CAP uniform and let the commanders set uniform wear policy for their activities, as they currently can do with all of the other uniforms.

[AlphaSigOU]

My Choice:

Wear should be prohibited from wear for regular unit meetings, and for base staff not flying.

I agree... though some in the zipper-suited-sun-god-mafia would have kittens if they can't wear their bag. Not a big problem in my squadron - most of our pilots wear the polo shirt combo to meetings and leave the bag wearing to an ES meeting night.

However, the current blue utility uniform is set up identical to the blue corporate flight suit. This can be worn by any member of CAP, cadink or senior member. I prefer wearing it to blue BDUs. Personally, I think the utility uniform insignia needs to be tweaked a little so it's not confused with the blue flight suit.

[Eclipse]

Especially given that the blue flight suit is fair game to wear wherever, and it uses the leather namepatch and same configuration as the green flight suit - and that the USAF allows regular wear of the same green flight suit -- i don't see why we would be so different on our wear policy?

Wear of the blue and green flightsuits is the same today, and should remain so - flight duty only.

In the USAF the flight suit is considered a duty uniform for >aircrew< only.

First, most USAF/AFRES, etc., people know how to wear it correctly, in regs and wash them once in a while.

Second, and with deference to >their< (USAF) program, they are a work uniform, our RAPs routinely wear them to squadron functions where the rest of the members are in service dress, and wreck photos of awards, etc. 

The fact that they >do< wear it most times, gives our guys an excuse, to which the answer is always "we're not the USAF".  Specific clarification would end this discussion.

(Note: I've never met a RAP who would not wear blues or civies to a meeting if asked in advance, however for many their participation is so random because of their "real" lives, that these connections are not made - this is not a knock on our great RAPS, just the realities of two simliar but different programs)

[CASH172]

What I've always wondered is, is it actually restricted from wearing the bag to almost everything in USAF, but something everyone does.

[BlueLakes1]

So, why the animus towards flyers who choose to wear the flight suit?

Bob, you're absolutely wrong about flight suits being aircrew only, and had you spent any time on a base, you'd know that. Non-rated aerospace physiology folks wear them, for one, and for anyone who is rated aircrew, it's a standard duty uniform, whether flying that day or not. It's even seen in the halls of the Pentagon on appropriately rated people, and it's still appropriate for rated folks who aren't even on flight status anymore, such as our CAPRAP people.

If we're in such a tizzy to ban the bags for anything other than flying, then should we also ban the BDUs for anything other than ES activity?

[mikeylikey]

Frankly, if non aircrew want to wear them to meetings, go ahead.  Since "leather nametag w/o wings = potential poser" in my book, I'd rather have them out in the open where I can watch them.

Ouch!  When I began scanner and observer years ago, I was pressured to wear a flight suit during training even though I had no aeronautical rating at the time.  I do have my private now, and have not been in a CAP plane in 2.5 years.  It hangs in my closet.  When I was attached to an AF unit almost 5 years ago, I wore a flight suit, even though I had no aeronautical rating and that was the "real" military.   

The whole thing about flight suits and who is allowed to wear them is ridiculous.  In CAP since there is no Brown leather jacket the Pilot types seem to make the flight suit their "brown jacket". 

Why can't any CAP member wear them?  They are comfortable.  Who cares really?

Perhaps something like "CAP members are permitted to wear the AF style flight suit when the immediate commander deems it appropriate"    

...........That then allows the Unit Commander, the Group Commander and the Wing and Region Commander to dictate policy.

CAP is said to be an aviation oriented organization, perhaps we should be seen more in flight suits, less in polo shirts.

[Eclipse]

OK, for clarity and 100% correctness, there are all kinds of USAF people who wear flightsuits.

[BlueLakes1]

OK, for clarity and 100% correctness, there are all kinds of USAF people who wear flightsuits.

OK, so now that we've settled that, what's the problem with wearing a correctly accoutered flight suit as a duty uniform?

CAP is said to be an aviation oriented organization, perhaps we should be seen more in flight suits, less in polo shirts.

Amen...

[Hawk200]

I think in a volunteer organization, where we have to purchase our own uniforms, we should permit wear of a flightsuit in appropriate settings. If it's a night for utility uniforms, then no reason why a flightsuit shouldn't be worn. If someone spends a $100 on that uniform, they should be able to wear it.

[CASH172]

I think in a volunteer organization, where we have to purchase our own uniforms, we should permit wear of a flightsuit in appropriate settings. If it's a night for utility uniforms, then no reason why a flightsuit shouldn't be worn. If someone spends a $100 on that uniform, they should be able to wear it.

Something that does kinda conflict this is when cadets start wearing them.  Now I'm a big supporter or wearing the bag more often, but in a cadet program, you have to look at what kind of image it does set.  The image is what's important to remember among cadets. 

[SAR-EMT1]

IMHO

I say, restrict wear to Pilots, Observers and Scanners (SM)
And cadets who have Pilots Ratings (NOT SOLO WINGS)

Wear during missions, AE activities (when appropriate) and during times when BDU is the UOD.

-- This was the criteria for wear at my old AFROTC unit.

[mikeylikey]

IMHO

I say, restrict wear to Pilots, Observers and Scanners (SM)
And cadets who have Pilots Ratings (NOT SOLO WINGS)

Wear during missions, AE activities (when appropriate) and during times when BDU is the UOD.

-- This was the criteria for wear at my old AFROTC unit.

Why do rated members get a flight suit to wear when not flying and and everyone else is in BDU's?  So basically, your better than everyone else if your a pilot, and you have a need to differentiate yourself from those around you?  (not you personally.)  What is an AE activity?  Would that be an Aerospace lesson to cadets?  So, the cadets are all in Blues or BDU's and you roll in wearing your bag.  Doesn't make sense.

As far as flight suits go, EVERYONE should be allowed to wear them.  Especially when I have seen hundreds of them sitting in DRMO's. 

AS far as ROTC goes, not the same situation.  If I am not mistaken those Cadets that wear them there are slotted for Air Battle Managers, Pilots,  Navigators etc when commissioned??  They are not "rated" in the sense of aviation ability.

[Eclipse]

I think in a volunteer organization, where we have to purchase our own uniforms, we should permit wear of a flightsuit in appropriate settings. If it's a night for utility uniforms, then no reason why a flightsuit shouldn't be worn. If someone spends a $100 on that uniform, they should be able to wear it.

And here's the fallacy, or issue, or what have you with the above arguments for wearing it "whenever" - "its expensive, so I should get to wear it because I am a volunteer".

By that reasoning everyone in with a service jacket should be able to wear >that< all the time / whenever they want to.

How much it cost is immaterial.

Wear of the flightsuit has a specific implication and reason.

And yes, I believe it should be restricted to AC & trainees.

If asked, and to be consistent,  I would also extend the same rules to BDU's.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I am rated for numerous ES specialties, including aircrew.  I arrive at a mission in my flight suit, assuming I will fly.  Upon arrival the IC tells me they have plenty of aircrews, but I am needed as a Mission Information Officer.  Do you want me to go home and change?

I arrive at a mission in BDU, since I was told on the telephone that I would be the Ground Branch Director.  Several hours into the mission, one of the aircrewmen gets an emergency notification that he has to go home.  I am tapped to fly as Mission Observer in his place.  Do I go home and change again?

We need to work this in the easiest way:  Flight Suit and BDU are equal uniforms.  If you are aircrew rated, you can wear the flight suit anytime you would wear the BDU.  The flight suit does not work well as a field uniform, but works well enough for short trips out on UDF missions.

The USAF has asked us to wear flight suits on base augmentation  missions if we are aircrew rated, since that is their uniform of the day.