Errors, Ambiguities & Conflicts in CAPM 39-1

[Hawk200]

Since there are many USAF items prohibited for our wear, >our< manual should be complete, with no references to outside pubs.  This clears up any ambiguity wth regards to items we're not allowed.

I'll second that one. And as an example, -2903 allows subdued flightsuit nameplates, and the A-2 leather jacket.

Use -2903, and someone would wear both those items, and use the excuse that "It's in AFI 36-2903, so it's legal!"

We could save ourselves some heartburn by having our own pub.

[capchiro]

Error or ambiguity??  Basic uniform for cadets is the blue short sleeve uniform.  No other uniform can be required unless provided for free or as an optional uniform.  However, whenever the cadet turns 18, he/she must meet weight standards or they must wear CAP distinctive uniforms.  Will the CAP distinctive uniforms be free or optional??  If not, how can they be required in lieu of the other regulation??

[isuhawkeye]

youth programs cost money.

even the boy/girl scouts require the purchase of uniforms.  Multiple ones none the less, short sleeve, long sleeve, shorts, pants, jackets, hats, etc

The argument of not providing free uniforms holds a lot of water with some, but none with me.

[RiverAux]

It would take half the CAP supplement to clear up what items in the AF regs we aren't allowed to wear. 

[LtCol White]

It would take half the CAP supplement to clear up what items in the AF regs we aren't allowed to wear. 

We dont need to say what we can't wear but emphasize that "only items from the following list are authorized for wear"

[lordmonar]

There are two tables for precedence of decorations.

One table places them AFTER all US ribbons,

The other table places foreign awards after US Military Awards, but ahead of CAP awards.

But that should be correct.  Foreign "military" awards earned on active duty take precidence over CAP awards.

[lordmonar]

Just as a suggestion...

Why do we insist on showing how to wear the uniform of a higher grade officer in all our manuals?  The most likely person to even open the uniform manual is a new person, so shouldn't the examples be showing lower grade individuals and focus on how to put on CAP cutouts instead of Lt Col epaulet sleeves? 

A higher grade officer is more likely to have more doodads and bling....ergo making a better illustration of placement of the various badges.

If we had a pictures of or typical cadet we would have only A1C's that have done nothing other than earn their Arnold.

I don't know what our "typical" officer is but I suspect they are 1st Lt's with just a tech rating.

[lordmonar]

My pet peeve.

We can wear rank on BBDU hats, and BDU hats but not organizational ball caps.   The USAF does let's follow suit.

I have a really good idea on how to eliminate 98% of the problems.

Step 1.  Change all our specialty badges to something that looks more USAFish.
Step 2.  Us AFI 36-2903 as our primary source of uniform wear information.
Step 3.  Write a simple supplement (or better yet get the USAF to reserve a whole chapter) stating the difference between USAF rules and CAP rules.

[Tim Medeiros]

I'd support a change in our specialty badges to look more like USAF occupational badges, also would be interesting to see if at least a supplement could be done.

[LtCol White]

My pet peeve.

We can wear rank on BBDU hats, and BDU hats but not organizational ball caps.   The USAF does let's follow suit.

I have a really good idea on how to eliminate 98% of the problems.

Step 1.  Change all our specialty badges to something that looks more USAFish.
Step 2.  Us AFI 36-2903 as our primary source of uniform wear information.
Step 3.  Write a simple supplement (or better yet get the USAF to reserve a whole chapter) stating the difference between USAF rules and CAP rules.

USAF has eliminated all org hats with the ABU

[Dragoon]

There is ambiguity over the wear of outergarments with USAF style unforms.  The phrase in tables 2-1, 2-2, and 2-3:

"...... use good judgment in choosing
appropriate garments for wear based on
weather conditions and duties."

...has been used as an excuse to choose civilian outergarments not listed in the chart  "Hey, in my good judgement, my Florida Marlins jacket is appropriate for the weather, so I'll wear it."

Suggest adding the sentence "Only outergarments listed in this chart are authorized." right before the phrase listed above.

[ddelaney103]

youth programs cost money.

even the boy/girl scouts require the purchase of uniforms.  Multiple ones none the less, short sleeve, long sleeve, shorts, pants, jackets, hats, etc

The argument of not providing free uniforms holds a lot of water with some, but none with me.

GSA does not require the purchase of any uniforms and most BSA troops only require one shirt with patches and neckerchief.  We expect our Cadets to have multiple uniforms and hold them to a lot higher standard than your average youth group.

Do I have a problem with that?  Not really, as long as we let a prospective Cadet know what they'll need to really participate.  Just talking about the minimum service uniform and the free uniform program is close to "bait and switch," considering encampment requires almost two sets of everything blue and green.

[isuhawkeye]

Just talking about the minimum service uniform and the free uniform program is close to "bait and switch," considering encampment requires almost two sets of everything blue and green

Which is exacly why you should not sell our program with the idea that a "free" uniform will meet their needs.  They will have to buy uniforms, and they should know that before they join

[AlphaSigOU]

I've heard this "just use 2903" argument a lot lately, especially as a back-door to quickly getting new items approved (i.e. as soon as it hits 2903, it'd be ok for us).

I'm sure many of you can see the issue with that.

Since there are many USAF items prohibited for our wear, >our< manual should be complete, with no references to outside pubs.  This clears up any ambiguity wth regards to items we're not allowed.

Who put the bump in the bump-she-bump-she-bump... who put the ram in the ram-a-lama-ding-dong...? 

About the only thing I'd adopt from 36-2903 is the current format for preparing regulatory publications. The front title should read "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY" in bold letters and the introductory paragraph should inform our members that "Willful failure to observe the prohibitions and mandatory provisions of this instruction may result in the member being suspended or terminated from membership in Civil Air Patrol."

These warnings shouldn't just apply to 39-1, but other big-dog regs as well (60-series, for example).

[Major Carrales]

Send printed poster sized illustrations for units to have to supplement the Manual.

Make sure everyone gets a Uniform Manual with membership or change.

Clear communication of the regs prevents most of the ambiguity.

[JohnKachenmeister]

This might be off topic, a bit.

Back in the day WIWAC, there was a CAP poster that illustrated all of the CAP insignia items.

It was a combination ribbon chart, badge identifier, and wing patch illustrator.

I realize we'd need a bigger poster now, but something like that would be useful at the unit level.

[BillB]

The older versions of 39-1 (1977, 1988) did not have the errors and conflicting instructions that the current version does. I'd go back to one of the old manuals, and update it rather that update and correct the current reg. The older versions also had better photos of correct uniform wear which should serve as a model for new photos.

[Hawk200]

The older versions of 39-1 (1977, 1988) did not have the errors and conflicting instructions that the current version does. I'd go back to one of the old manuals, and update it rather that update and correct the current reg. The older versions also had better photos of correct uniform wear which should serve as a model for new photos.

The issue is not a case of old vs. new. The manual we need is one that is properly written, proof-read, and crosschecked for continuity. The current manual just seems to be a re-hash of an earlier one, and new stuff isn't checked with the old stuff to be certain that they match.

The uniform manual seems to be an afterthought. It needs to be written from beginning to end on its own, rather than just republished with a few new pictures and content.

[davedove]

One small thing is the embroidered CAP cutout on the epaulets on the field jacket.  It isn't mentioned in the notes for Figure 2-18, nor is it mentioned in Table 6-1.  Yet Figure 6-3 clearly shows the embroidered CAP cutout on the epaulet.

[Pylon]

One small thing is the embroidered CAP cutout on the epaulets on the field jacket.  It isn't mentioned in the notes for Figure 2-18, nor is it mentioned in Table 6-1.  Yet Figure 6-3 clearly shows the embroidered CAP cutout on the epaulet.

Nice find!  Thanks.