ABU's With Samples of CAP Insignia

[Hawk200]

It looks really good.....OD matches the green on the ABU well.....

I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one. The ABU is a predominantly grey uniform. It has no actual OD on it. You have one, I'm surprised that you can't see that.

...and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.

People think we're pretending anyway, any OD colors are going to reinforce that.

On another note, do you think the Air Force will do that? It is their uniform, they have a say in how it's configured. I don't think taking a step back is going to help.

Besides, woven tapes will probably be out soon enough, the newest concept is fabric strips from the uniform material itself. We probably won't get tiger stripe strips, but grey would be easy.

On yet another note, the bright colored patches look surprisingly good. The uniform itself is bright, so bright patches aren't so garish.

I think you need your eyes checked. the uniform is green, gray and tan. And you're right, I have one. Its not predominately gray. The OD on white matches well with it and is distinctive.

I have better than 20/20 vision, and much better than average color differentiation. I can tell you for a fact that there is no OD in the pattern of the ABU or ACU. You can argue it all you wish, but it's not true.

The Army wore OD tapes on the ACU for awhile and it looked crappy. Looked a lot better after they put on fabric strip nametapes.

The two uniforms use three common colors, the Air Force added a fourth: slate blue. None of them are complimentary with OD. Be stubborn about it all you want, it's still a fact.

But if it will make you feel better, I'll withhold my opinion on it in the future.

[LtCol White]

It looks really good.....OD matches the green on the ABU well.....

I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one. The ABU is a predominantly grey uniform. It has no actual OD on it. You have one, I'm surprised that you can't see that.

...and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.

People think we're pretending anyway, any OD colors are going to reinforce that.

On another note, do you think the Air Force will do that? It is their uniform, they have a say in how it's configured. I don't think taking a step back is going to help.

Besides, woven tapes will probably be out soon enough, the newest concept is fabric strips from the uniform material itself. We probably won't get tiger stripe strips, but grey would be easy.

On yet another note, the bright colored patches look surprisingly good. The uniform itself is bright, so bright patches aren't so garish.

I think you need your eyes checked. the uniform is green, gray and tan. And you're right, I have one. Its not predominately gray. The OD on white matches well with it and is distinctive.

I have better than 20/20 vision, and much better than average color differentiation. I can tell you for a fact that there is no OD in the pattern of the ABU or ACU. You can argue it all you wish, but it's not true.

The Army wore OD tapes on the ACU for awhile and it looked crappy. Looked a lot better after they put on fabric strip nametapes.

The two uniforms use three common colors, the Air Force added a fourth: slate blue. None of them are complimentary with OD. Be stubborn about it all you want, it's still a fact.

But if it will make you feel better, I'll withhold my opinion on it in the future.

Its not your opinion that i took issue with. It was the pissy tone you used in expressing it. Re-read what you wrote.

[Hawk200]

Its not your opinion that i took issue with. It was the pissy tone you used in expressing it. Re-read what you wrote.

Just highlight what you consider pissy, send it to me PM, and I'll know what not to say in the future. Didn't think I was hurting anyones feelings, but I'm willing to accept that I might have. Just let me know what it was that bothered you, and I'll attempt to be more diplomatic in the future.

[LtCol White]

Its not your opinion that i took issue with. It was the pissy tone you used in expressing it. Re-read what you wrote.

Just highlight what you consider pissy, send it to me PM, and I'll know what not to say in the future. Didn't think I was hurting anyones feelings, but I'm willing to accept that I might have. Just let me know what it was that bothered you, and I'll attempt to be more diplomatic in the future.

PM sent

[jb512]

So...  I'm still for the grey strips with either white or green lettering.  It would be different than the RM and still compliment the colors of the uniform.

[Trouble]

So...  I'm still for the grey strips with either white or green lettering.  It would be different than the RM and still compliment the colors of the uniform.

I don't see Grey tapes being used on the CAP ABU. While the Name and Branch tapes on AF ABUs are Midnight blue on Digital Tiger, the other badges and grade insignia are Midnight Blue on Urban Grey. Why the AF did that I have no idea, but they did. 

But Urban Grey Letters on Midnight blue cloth would be a decent compromise. Though I still like the White on OD the best.   

[SAR-EMT1]

You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol  or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.

[Hawk200]

You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol  or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.

You know, I got to thinking about the "Civil Air Patrol" versus "USAF Auxiliary" thing, and kinda came to a conclusion.

Our organizations name is "Civil Air Patrol". It's not "United States Air Force Auxiliary". Civil Air Patrol is who we are, the United States Air Force Auxiliary is what we are (more at some times, less at others).

Considering that we aren't actually the "USAF Auxiliary" all the time, it's probably more appropriate to have branch tapes that say "Civil Air Patrol", not "Air Force Auxiliary".

[LtCol White]

You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol  or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.

You know, I got to thinking about the "Civil Air Patrol" versus "USAF Auxiliary" thing, and kinda came to a conclusion.

Our organizations name is "Civil Air Patrol". It's not "United States Air Force Auxiliary". Civil Air Patrol is who we are, the United States Air Force Auxiliary is what we are (more at some times, less at others).

Considering that we aren't actually the "USAF Auxiliary" all the time, it's probably more appropriate to have branch tapes that say "Civil Air Patrol", not "Air Force Auxiliary".

Hawk200 is exactly correct. How many times have you seen it written like this? "Civil Air Patrol, The Official Auxiliary of the US Air Force".

[LtCol White]

You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol  or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.

This is something that is most likely to not be the choice of USAF for the ABU's we wear. Yes, in the past we wore the same tapes but just because it once was doesn't mean it will go back to that.

Personally, I think the tapes (no matter what color combo) should also match the rank and insignia. Different but professional (hopefully) is going to be the direction that USAF goes with this.

Something like white on green is very distinct but less obnoxious than the white on ultramarine blue. Same with some of the other suggestions on here. When considering the tapes, you need to consider how the rest of the package will look when its all put together.

[Hawk200]

Personally, I think the tapes (no matter what color combo) should also match the rank and insignia. Different but professional (hopefully) is going to be the direction that USAF goes with this.

Got to agree with this one. I'm still wondering what the Air Force was thinking on that one. They made nametapes in tiger, why not badges & rank too?

At least they aren't going with tan nametapes on the ABU. Not kidding, it's actually in  the 2 August 2006 copy of 36-2903.

[Trouble]

Personally, I think the tapes (no matter what color combo) should also match the rank and insignia. Different but professional (hopefully) is going to be the direction that USAF goes with this.

Got to agree with this one. I'm still wondering what the Air Force was thinking on that one. They made nametapes in tiger, why not badges & rank too?

At least they aren't going with tan nametapes on the ABU. Not kidding, it's actually in  the 2 August 2006 copy of 36-2903.

I think the Tan tapes in  the 2 August 2006 copy of 36-2903 was a hold over attempt on the part of the AF -uniform- overlords, as Tan tapes are what was authorized to be worn on the ACU by (based on their job/need) airmen that are attached to US Army units. Thankfully someone got their head partially unstuck
from their aft exhaust port and went with Urban Grey. I think over time, probably a very loooong time, but hopefully closer to the end of AEF 7's rotation than not, we might start to see changes made to the ABU. 

As for the digital tiger tapes with urban grey badges/grade insignia, I think  some zipper suited sun god, got the idea in his head that his ZSSG badge (wings) would not stand out enough against Digital Tiger.  Which is funny after having seen AF badges on Digital Tiger they stand out just fine, and look much better than the Urban Grey.

[LtCol White]

OK, here are some updated photos of samples of the ABU with various versions of nametape colors.


Current CAP


White on OD


Blue on OD (Current USAF Subdued)


Blue on Tan


White on Tan

[MIKE]

^ FYI: The grade is postioned wrong on the collar. 

[BillB]

Mike you're wrong,  grade insignia is worn on BOTH sides, there is a policy letter on that

[pixelwonk]

^ FYI: The grade is postioned wrong on the collar. 

killjoy.   



With respect to the tapes, since you went through the trouble of having them made (again, why did you do that?) I guess the least we could do is weigh in on it.
Although the White on OD doesn't actually look OD, (compared to blue on OD) it looks the best.
Whatever color that is as it's represented in the photo looks really good, despite it's distinctiveness, IMO. Almost like a darker value of the darkest pattern color.  It's nice.

The tan tapes ...not so much.

[LtCol White]

^ FYI: The grade is postioned wrong on the collar. 

killjoy.   



With respect to the tapes, since you went through the trouble of having them made (again, why did you do that?) I guess the least we could do is weigh in on it.
Although the White on OD doesn't actually look OD, (compared to blue on OD) it looks the best.
Whatever color that is as it's represented in the photo looks really good, despite it's distinctiveness, IMO. Almost like a darker value of the darkest pattern color.  It's nice.

The tan tapes ...not so much.

The cost of the tapes is really nothing. Not a big deal.  Thought I'd use the ABU's I have to give folks an idea of how some of the suggestions really look on the actual uniform. I have to say I think the white on OD looks the best as well.

[MIKE]

My beef:  Why do we have to come up with something new and distinctively different for this uniform?  I could see going to a slightly darker blue to appease the Field Uniform wearers out there... After phasing out the old ultramarine by attrition.  At least then you don't have to have two different color sets for the two uniforms.

The other option or perhaps non-option is to use the same tape and insignia colors as the USAF does for the ABU... Then members wearing ABUs can get their tapes and possibly grade from MCSS or elsewhere, but aviation badges and specialty insignia will need to be produced by Vanguard in flag blue on gray.  To me this is the only legitimate total change for the ABU.

[LtCol White]

My beef:  Why do we have to come up with something new and distinctively different for this uniform?  I could see going to a slightly darker blue to appease the Field Uniform wearers out there... After phasing out the old ultramarine by attrition.  At least then you don't have to have two different color sets for the two uniforms.

The other option or perhaps non-option is to use the same tape and insignia colors as the USAF does for the ABU... Then members wearing ABUs can get their tapes and possibly grade from MCSS or elsewhere, but aviation badges and specialty insignia will need to be produced by Vanguard in flag blue on gray.  To me this is the only legitimate total change for the ABU.

Well during the phase in period you would have 2 uniforms anyway just as USAF has right now. Most people were expressing a desire for something not as extreme as the ultra blue. Navy blue is just as extreme although not as neon. I think you can pretty much rule out using the same as USAF. Its just not gonna happen IMO.

[RiverAux]

Of the latest batch of examples I like the white on OD though it actually looks more dark blue to me.