ABU's With Samples of CAP Insignia

[LtCol White]

If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU?  Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue.  Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.

We argued that one already.  The free uniforms from the military outweigh going solely to a uniform that everyone, mainly cadets, would have to purchase.

Well, wasn't looking for an argument.  Just stating what I feel is a better option.  There is a DoD hold now on all BDU uniforms.  Also survey your cadets, see how many have relied on DRMO or other surplus uniforms.  A cadet in a BBDU will look just a sharp as one in surplus BDU's.  Of course, as you say, you've already argued this so that's my take.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

This has already been beaten to death on other threads and is not the purpose of this one. If you would like further discussion on the issue, please take it to one of the other ABU threads. This is strictly about potential insignia for the ABU when CAP switches to it.

[jb512]

I like the blue on gray. Can you do white letters on OD and also Blue letters on OD?

This is about as close as I could get to OD...

[SarDragon]

If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU?  Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue.  Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.

We argued that one already.  The free uniforms from the military outweigh going solely to a uniform that everyone, mainly cadets, would have to purchase.

I think your "free uniform" concept is overly generalized. Many folks, for whatever reasons, do not have free BDUs available. Also, the free ones I have seen have been mostly unserviceable, which is why they're free in the first place. I certainly wouldn't wear most of the "free" stuff I've seen available.

[Hawk200]

I like the blue on gray. Can you do white letters on OD and also Blue letters on OD?

This is about as close as I could get to OD...

I would not go with OD. The ABU pattern is predominantly grey colors, and the insignia that the Air Force sews onto it are grey backgrounds. OD will clash, it just doesn't work with grey.

[MIKE]

The Army had OD stuff on the ACU in the early days... Looked like [butt].

[LtCol White]

Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.

Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to  be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.

[LtCol White]

The Army has OD stuff on the ACU in the early days... Looked like [butt].

But would u rather OD on the ABU or Neon blue that even Helen Keller can see?? 

[MIKE]

Yes, I would rather keep what we have now than come up with something new and different that is not what the USAF is wearing on that particular uniform.

[LtCol White]

If we went to the OD on the ABU, USAF would not be wearing it on their ABU and the blue thread color would be different. The new ABU insignia is a midnight blue which is almost black v/s CAP using the current USAF blue which is easily seen as blue.

[MIKE]

So we might as well keep what we got.

[ddelaney103]

I would suggest we start to move to full color on navy for all of the uniforms: BDU, BBDU, utility uniform, flight suits (sage and blue) and the ABU when adopted.  They look professional, are different from the AF and are easily readable.

In the end, though, CAP should have just one set of embroidered grade and tapes.  Let's not get into the whole gray vs blue epaulets mess again.

[Ford73Diesel]

I don't care what color it is as long as I can read it.

The current (non-abu) tapes I find are hard to read unless you are close.

[SAR-EMT1]

Hoping that we get the honor of wearing the ABU, I would hope that we are allowed to have the same color tapes as the USAF. No more Blue and white or anything else out of place or garish.

[LtCol White]

Hoping that we get the honor of wearing the ABU, I would hope that we are allowed to have the same color tapes as the USAF. No more Blue and white or anything else out of place or garish.

ABU is pretty much a certainty. Wearing the same as USAF is probably unlikely. Just have to wait and see what USAF approves. Issue of the ABU's may come up at NB this week since the supply of BDU's at AAFES is becoming limited.

[jb512]

Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.

Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to  be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.

That's kinda what I was getting at before about changing the colors of the rank insignia to match.  However, the whole reason we're not subdued now is because they want us different than the RM.

I don't think we're going to get away with using many darker shades because of the resemblance to the RM.  I would love for them to find us something different than smurf blue and white though and this would be an excellent opportunity to get that done when we switch over.

[jb512]

Yes, I would rather keep what we have now than come up with something new and different that is not what the USAF is wearing on that particular uniform.

The AF doesn't currently seem to be wearing any 'smurfblue'...

[jb512]

I would suggest we start to move to full color on navy for all of the uniforms: BDU, BBDU, utility uniform, flight suits (sage and blue) and the ABU when adopted.  They look professional, are different from the AF and are easily readable.

In the end, though, CAP should have just one set of embroidered grade and tapes.  Let's not get into the whole gray vs blue epaulets mess again.

That's what we're trying to do, or suggest, is get into one set of embroidery.  My vote is for 'epaulet grey/white (or gold when appropriate)' for ABU nametapes, rank insignia, and specialty insignia.  It would match the uniform well, match our other uniforms well, be different from the AF, and stand out enough to be noticeable.

[Hawk200]

Yes, I would rather keep what we have now than come up with something new and different that is not what the USAF is wearing on that particular uniform.

The AF doesn't currently seem to be wearing any 'smurfblue'...

White on Navy would work, and it would match Air Force stripes, which didn't look all that bad on BDU's. If the nametapes had been darker on BDU's they probably would have looked fine.

Hoping that we get the honor of wearing the ABU, I would hope that we are allowed to have the same color tapes as the USAF. No more Blue and white or anything else out of place or garish.

That is probably unlikely. The Air Force wants major visual differences so we don't get confused with their people. Darkening tapes is an easy option that falls inline with that desire, and still maintains major differences. "Ultramarine blue" just looks childish, like something you would see on those kids "uniforms" they sell in most military clothing stores.

[ddelaney103]

I would suggest we start to move to full color on navy for all of the uniforms: BDU, BBDU, utility uniform, flight suits (sage and blue) and the ABU when adopted.  They look professional, are different from the AF and are easily readable.

In the end, though, CAP should have just one set of embroidered grade and tapes.  Let's not get into the whole gray vs blue epaulets mess again.

That's what we're trying to do, or suggest, is get into one set of embroidery.  My vote is for 'epaulet grey/white (or gold when appropriate)' for ABU nametapes, rank insignia, and specialty insignia.  It would match the uniform well, match our other uniforms well, be different from the AF, and stand out enough to be noticeable.

I'd be all for your proposal (in fact, I wrote this up once) until I read Hawk's post.

He reminded me that we should try to match the AF NCO stripes we wear.  It would be easier to go the white on navy route for the other stuff instead of having to come up with white on gray AF stripes.

Changing the stripe color would be very "old school" (CAP used red stripes instead of army olive) but also expensive.

[LtCol White]

Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.

Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to  be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.

That's kinda what I was getting at before about changing the colors of the rank insignia to match.  However, the whole reason we're not subdued now is because they want us different than the RM.

I don't think we're going to get away with using many darker shades because of the resemblance to the RM.  I would love for them to find us something different than smurf blue and white though and this would be an excellent opportunity to get that done when we switch over.

I don't think USAF would be opposed to the subdued based on converstions I have had with the appropriate USAF personnel. They're more interested in a visible difference from what USAF will be currently wearing. So, Blue on OD or White on OD is same rank and specialty insignia is a possibility.