Proposal 3: Uniform Issues

[ColonelJack]

And anyone who thinks the cadets will stay if we drop the military uniforms is living in a dream world. 

I agree 100% with that assessment.  That's why I believe we need two uniform sets -- one AF and one corporate.

And that's it.

Like Sparky said. 

Jack

[fyrfitrmedic]

So, Sparky, would the non-AF "mess dress" (Tux uniform) be acceptable if I wore a Prince Charlie jacket with my kilt?  Medals, etc., pin on that just nice.  Take a look.

Jack

Nice, but I don't want to drop $300+ on a CAP tartan, 'cause you know the Rangers wouldn't rest until it had blaze orange stripes in it.

I have worn my mini's on Scottish formal wear and wore my full size medals last Memorial Day.  I ended up directing traffic in my kilt and shirt after a Beltway accident.

Still haven't gotten my Silver Medal, though.

Orange has already been done quite a wihle before there was even a CAP; IIRC a number of 'ancient' tartans feature an orange shade as a 'faded red' or something to that effect. I defer, however,  to those who possess a greater depth of knowledge on the subject than I. I'd try my own hand at a tartan design but I've yet to find a copy of the software to do it in a presentable manner given my meager skills.

An aside to Colonel Jack: which pattern was that?

[ColonelJack]

An aside to Colonel Jack: which pattern was that?

MacDonald of the Isles.  I have three MacDonald tartans -- regular, Dress Blue, and "of the Isles."  I also maintain a Royal Stewart, though my connection to that clan is tenuous at best.  (Sharp looking kilt, though.)

Jack

[lordmonar]

That will really separate us from the cadets though. I like to work with cadets and prefer to set an example for them with the correct uniform.

I can see going to all corporate when working with the senior side. But when you work with cadets it is helpful to follow the same standards that they do; uniforms, customs, etc.. I know that there are some that don't go with the AF style when they are working with cadets but it is better for some to than none.

?

Who said any thing about cadets wearing USAF style!?  They wear corporates too!

ONE TEAM, ONE UNIFORM!

[jason.pennington]

A couple of things.  FIrst, we need to all look like one organization.  THe boy Scouts does it very well.  I am kind of growing on the corporate uniform.  I think we could all stop wearing the USAF uniforms (Seniors) and wear the TPU.  However, there should be a change.  Allow military ribbons to be worn on the TPU as they are on the USAF uniform.  This will give the people that want to show off their military service (Me being oneof them after 20 years of service) an opportunity to do so.  I do not believe there is a federal law that prohibits me from wearing my military ribbons anywhere that I want -- except the specific branch's regs.

Second -- do the cadets really care if we are wearing a blue shirt or a white shirt?  I think they would be most impressed if we could all wear one uniform, like they are required to do!

[jb512]

Uniforms would be consolidated to 1 USAF style and 1 CAP Distinctive style.  They would parallel each other.  Cadets would be bound to USAF Style and Seniors could choose...

I couldn't agree more.  I agree in the USAF or Corporate as the only two options.

[isuhawkeye]

im totally putting my medals on my charlie jacket. 

[Hawk200]

Second -- do the cadets really care if we are wearing a blue shirt or a white shirt?  I think they would be most impressed if we could all wear one uniform, like they are required to do!

If it wasn't the same uniform they would be wearing, then it's not uniformity. It would be cadets in one uniform, and seniors in another.

You guys may want to line Vanguards pockets, but I can get blues a lot cheaper from AAFES.

[arajca]

Second -- do the cadets really care if we are wearing a blue shirt or a white shirt?  I think they would be most impressed if we could all wear one uniform, like they are required to do!

Cadets do care what uniform we (SM's) wear. Many have the attitude "you can't tell me how to wear a uniform YOU don't wear." It gets interesting when the sqdn commander (in AF uniform) asks an SM (in corporates) if the commander's uniform is right - in front of the cadet staff.

[ddelaney103]

An aside to Colonel Jack: which pattern was that?

MacDonald of the Isles.  I have three MacDonald tartans -- regular, Dress Blue, and "of the Isles."  I also maintain a Royal Stewart, though my connection to that clan is tenuous at best.  (Sharp looking kilt, though.)

Jack

That's why I wear USAF tartan - my connections to a Highland ancestor are a tricky bank shot. 

Nowadays, the Irish county from which my family emigrated has it's own tartan so I could always use that.  It's kinda dull, though: I have a tie in it but doubt I'd want a kilt of it.

[ColonelJack]

That's why I wear USAF tartan - my connections to a Highland ancestor are a tricky bank shot.

That USAF tartan is sharp, isn't it?  My next kilt purchases will be that tartan and the Glasgow District tartan (my dance partner's tartan -- I already have the tie).  I will then have six kilts -- one more and I will be able to wear one every day.  That's the goal, anyway.

Jack 

[alamrcn]

The "occasions" are as followed: Mess Dress (for the most formal affairs), Formal Dress (for those occasions to where a "business suit" would be worn), Semi-Formal (basically, a shirt and tie combo), Minimum Basic SERVICE DRESS (short sleeve combo...with/without ribbons and a flight cap for daily meeting use/base staff), Field Dress (BDU, ACU) (the dress of the Ground teams) and the Flight Suit (the garb of aviators).

Yes, yes, and yes!

One Corp uniform for each USAF uniform... One uniform on either side for one prupose and one function! Brilliant, you get a Guinness! No golf shirt, polo shirt, guayabera shirt <yak!>, or jump suits? Splended!

Hey, and I'll bet all the same insignia fits on everything too, right? No special pieces for that one variation of the one style of uniform?  Sweet.

Although, a standard PT uniform (shirt/short/pant/jacket) might be the one addition to your list - but EVERYONE gets to wear that one!


-Ace

[floridacyclist]

I like the idea of slimming down the uniform choices (in addition to slimming down the wearers) a bit, but I would keep the golf shirt in one flavor for civillian functions. When I attend functions at the state EOC or FEMA classes etc, I prefer not to go in with epaulets, and nametags etc like little Lord Fauntleroy all dressed up and playing military. When working with people wearing polo shirts (which 98% of the folks in an EOC do) it is probably best to do as they do.

I can also see the use for a civillian-appearing "uniform" in other areas as well.

[Major Carrales]

Brilliant, you get a Guinness!
-Ace

ACE, this is SPARKY...

I'll pour one later this evening!

SPARKY OUT!

[Major Carrales]

I like the idea of slimming down the uniform choices (in addition to slimming down the wearers) a bit, but I would keep the golf shirt in one flavor for civillian functions. When I attend functions at the state EOC or FEMA classes etc, I prefer not to go in with epaulets, and nametags etc like little Lord Fauntleroy all dressed up and playing military. When working with people wearing polo shirts (which 98% of the folks in an EOC do) it is probably best to do as they do.

I can also see the use for a civillian-appearing "uniform" in other areas as well.

My friend, I hate to disagree.

The SERVICE COAT or SERVICE DRESS serves that fuinction.  As I see it, in keeping with the paradigm that we need a more limited uniform spectrum (1 USAF Style and 1 CAP Style), I submit that either one is  a "CAP Officer" or not. 

This is what would distinguish us from them.  It is not too much to ask to wear minimum basic service uniform at an EOC.  When working with people wearing polo shirts, rahter than "slack back" our standards to "do as they do," simply join their organization.  Then you could "be more like them and less like us."

As you can tell, since coming up with this, I have become of the mindset that we need to look like a "CAP Officers" and "CAP Cadets" not anything else.  If they have a problem with our dress, then they don't need our services.

I want to foster a a situation where people can look at one of us walking down the street and say, that is a CAP Officer.  Based on current issues, the 1 USAF STYLE/1 CAP Style would best do that.

[JC004]

So, Sparky, would the non-AF "mess dress" (Tux uniform) be acceptable if I wore a Prince Charlie jacket with my kilt?  Medals, etc., pin on that just nice.  Take a look.

Jack

Nice, but I don't want to drop $300+ on a CAP tartan, 'cause you know the Rangers wouldn't rest until it had blaze orange stripes in it.

I have worn my mini's on Scottish formal wear and wore my full size medals last Memorial Day.  I ended up directing traffic in my kilt and shirt after a Beltway accident.

Still haven't gotten my Silver Medal, though.

Orange has already been done quite a wihle before there was even a CAP; IIRC a number of 'ancient' tartans feature an orange shade as a 'faded red' or something to that effect. I defer, however,  to those who possess a greater depth of knowledge on the subject than I. I'd try my own hand at a tartan design but I've yet to find a copy of the software to do it in a presentable manner given my meager skills.

An aside to Colonel Jack: which pattern was that?

Lies.  CAP invented orange.

[SarDragon]

Addressing Major Carrales' post w/o quoting it -

While the reg is unclear, it appears to me that the golf shirt in a senior member only uniform, and therefore only worn by CAP officers. There would be very few members who are not at least 2nd Lt wearing that uniform in the given scenario. Also, the absence of rank can actually work to the advantage of the under 21 SMs, since their "different" FO insignia would be there to cause confusion and questions.

I think it has its place in our "seabag". I have given a couple of AE presentations in that uniform, and was well received. It has the seal to identify us as CAP members without being overly gaudy.

[jb512]

Addressing Major Carrales' post w/o quoting it -

While the reg is unclear, it appears to me that the golf shirt in a senior member only uniform, and therefore only worn by CAP officers. There would be very few members who are not at least 2nd Lt wearing that uniform in the given scenario. Also, the absence of rank can actually work to the advantage of the under 21 SMs, since their "different" FO insignia would be there to cause confusion and questions.

I think it has its place in our "seabag". I have given a couple of AE presentations in that uniform, and was well received. It has the seal to identify us as CAP members without being overly gaudy.

Ehh, I'd disagree.  The blues/corporate with epaulets, nametag, and wings isn't very gaudy at all.  I'm not fond of the polo as a uniform option at all.

[AlphaSigOU]

Ehh, I'd disagree.  The blues/corporate with epaulets, nametag, and wings isn't very gaudy at all.  I'm not fond of the polo as a uniform option at all.

I wouldn't quite dump the polo shirt uniform, if they'd standardize on a specific type/color/weave gray trouser it's not that bad.

I prefer Corporate Blue over Corporate Gray.

[floridacyclist]

When trying to work with civillian professionals, dressing like a military officer (especially when everyone knows that you're not) only sharpens the divide; some of these folks are probably already convinced you're some kind of Whacker that couldn't cut it on the volunteer fire department. Dressing up like you are playing soldier does not always work when you're working with civillians. Another example I can think of is an EAA meeting; EAA is one of the most unmilitary organizations I can think of, yet when we are talking Aerospace-related issues (remember, that OTHER mission of ours?) it is to our advantage to not look out of place.


Sometimes, low-key is the way to go.