Objection, Your Honor!

Started by ColonelJack, June 11, 2007, 11:40:20 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ColonelJack

Quote from: Psicorp on June 11, 2007, 05:11:21 PM
My only objection to the TPU is that the aviator shirt / gray pants combo still exists.

But that's the way it should be!  NHQ has to decide one of two things -- either those who don't meet grooming standards (the fuzzies) can wear the corporate blues or they can't.  If they can, the aviation greys can go away.  But if the decision stands as is -- the fuzzies can't wear the blues -- then the aviation greys must remain as a third dress uniform combination for those who want to wear facial hair. 

Quote
Okay, I too have a dislike for the silver braid (blue braid would look better) and I think the blue epaulets should have been the Cadet Officer style with CAP embroidery.

I think I've stumbled on a reason for the silver braid -- distinguishing the corporate blues at a glance from AF no matter the angle you're approaching the officer.  But I agree that blue braid would look better (and fie to those who say no braid at all -- we have to have something to distinguish officers from NCOs.)  And I do agree that the blue epaulets need CAP embroidered onto them.

Quote
The few members I've seen wear it have looked pretty spiffy.   The lack of fore thought  in having a female version ready at the same time as the men's either says we don't have enough women on the NB or that there wasn't much consultation going on at all.

Probably no consultation on this issue.  Most of us didn't see the female version until General Courter wore one (quite nicely, I might add), but I understand at least one Region Commander had the ladies' edition on as early as last summer.  They were there if you knew who to ask, I suppose.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

jimmydeanno

Quote from: ColonelJack on June 11, 2007, 08:43:48 PM
(and fie to those who say no braid at all -- we have to have something to distinguish officers from NCOs.) 

other than the obvious grade insignia...?
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

mikeylikey

Why do the blue epaulets need to have "CAP" embroidered on them?  Why give vanguard more money?  As it is now......we can order those from AAFES at a cheaper price and not pay huge shipping charges! 

What really is the reason?  Everyone says they would like to have them......why? 

We already have a nameplate that says "Civil Air Patrol".....and "CAP" cutouts and silver braid and no military ribbons!  I can tell the difference between a CAP Officer and an AF Officer. 

Please fill me in!!
What's up monkeys?

SarDragon

I don't like it.

It's ugly.

I'm not allowed to wear it anyway cuz I'm a "fuzzy".
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Pumbaa

I am Fuzzy and Fat... I am the 2nd class citizen of CAP.. I am looked down on because I don't wear the AF wannabee uniform....

So there.

ANd yes I am stink'n mad.

shorning

Quote from: SarDragon on June 12, 2007, 12:42:57 AM
I'm not allowed to wear it anyway cuz I'm a "fuzzy".

That's funny, because I fit the standards for the Air Force-style uniforms, but I can't wear the TPU either.  In fact, from what I can tell, I'm specifically prohibited from wearing by my employer.

Psicorp

Quote from: mikeylikey on June 11, 2007, 10:53:04 PM
Why do the blue epaulets need to have "CAP" embroidered on them?  Why give vanguard more money?  As it is now......we can order those from AAFES at a cheaper price and not pay huge shipping charges! 

What really is the reason?  Everyone says they would like to have them......why? 

We already have a nameplate that says "Civil Air Patrol".....and "CAP" cutouts and silver braid and no military ribbons!  I can tell the difference between a CAP Officer and an AF Officer. 

Please fill me in!!

Why do the gray epaulets have "CAP" cutouts on them?   It just doesn't make sense for every other epaulet to have it but the TPU and putting it on might nudge us a little closer to getting rid of the gray sleeves, maybe...one day.
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

arajca

Quote from: Psicorp on June 12, 2007, 12:09:14 PM
Why do the gray epaulets have "CAP" cutouts on them?   It just doesn't make sense for every other epaulet to have it but the TPU and putting it on might nudge us a little closer to getting rid of the gray sleeves, maybe...one day.

Once upon a time, CAP SM's wore blue shoulder slides. The only difference between the CAP slide and the AF slide was the "CAP" embriodered on the CAP slides. Then came the berry boards. To save costs and comply with AF requirements, the only change was the color of the slide material. When the grey slides were introduced, they made the same change - from marroon materials to grey. The embriodery pattern remained the same.

ddelaney103

Quote from: shorning on June 12, 2007, 03:25:39 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 12, 2007, 12:42:57 AM
I'm not allowed to wear it anyway cuz I'm a "fuzzy".

That's funny, because I fit the standards for the Air Force-style uniforms, but I can't wear the TPU either.  In fact, from what I can tell, I'm specifically prohibited from wearing by my employer.

I'll need an AFI cite for this one...

Hawk200

#29
Quote from: ddelaney103 on June 12, 2007, 01:48:02 PM
I'll need an AFI cite for this one...

AFI 36-2903, Table 1.3 (page 9) "Do not wear in civilian attire. For example: grade insignia, cap devices, badges and other U.S. or Air Force insignia, distinctive buttons, etc"

Also, Note 6. (page 10) : "Officers and Enlisted: Do not wear or mix unique uniform items with civilian clothes. These items are those unique to the uniform. They include grade insignia, cap devices, badges and other U. S. or Air Force insignia, such as items with the "Wing and Star" design, and so forth."

shorning

I see I was beaten to it but...

Quote from: ddelaney103 on June 12, 2007, 01:48:02 PM
I'll need an AFI cite for this one...

Sure, but you should know this already:

Quote from: 36-2903, Table 1.3, Note 6Officers and Enlisted: Do not wear or mix unique uniform items with civilian clothes.
These items are those unique to the uniform. They include grade insignia, cap devices,
badges and other U. S. or Air Force insignia, such as items with the "Wing and Star"
design, and so forth. Exception: Tie tacs and lapel pins when wearing business attire
authorized.

Emphasis mine.  I don't see an exception for CAP.  We can pretend that the components aren't really Air Force it's, but we'd be lying to ourselves. 

Hawk200


shorning


davedove

I know, we need to create another level of uniform.

We have:
1) A uniform for those who meet the AF weight and grooming standards, the AF blues.
2) A uniform for those who meet the grooming standards, but not weight, the corporate uniform.
3) A uniform for those who don't meet either standard, the white/grey combo.

We need:
4) A uniform for those who meet the weight standard, but not the grooming. ;D
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

ddelaney103

But that's not even close to the spirit of the regs.

Under that logic, you couldn't wear any CAP uniform except the golf shirt as the rest of them have restricted items (buttons, grade insignia, etc.)

mikeylikey

^^ Agreed!  Is there a section in that AF reg that says something like  "The SECAF can authorize certain groups to wear distinctive AF and US devices?  The army has a page that says that in thier reg......I thought the AF did as well!
What's up monkeys?

Hawk200

Quote from: shorning on June 12, 2007, 04:52:54 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 12, 2007, 04:46:55 PM
Too slow, shorning.... ;)

I think I covered that already. ::)

Just poking a little fun, wasn't meant to be taken seriously. My apologies.

shorning

Quote from: ddelaney103 on June 12, 2007, 05:09:35 PM
But that's not even close to the spirit of the regs.

Under that logic, you couldn't wear any CAP uniform except the golf shirt as the rest of them have restricted items (buttons, grade insignia, etc.)

Now you're on to something!

But seriously, I don't have an issue with the clothing items we wear as part of our uniforms.  However, there is a subtle (yet distinct in my mind) difference between that and wearing Air Force shoulder marks. 


mikeylikey

^^  Why stop at the blue marks......you can then say the "US" cutouts, and blue sleeve braid...etc. 
What's up monkeys?

shorning

Quote from: mikeylikey on June 12, 2007, 10:41:37 PM
^^  Why stop at the blue marks......you can then say the "US" cutouts, and blue sleeve braid...etc. 

That was one example.  And it depends on which uniform we're talking about.  Right now the discussion is all over the place.  There is a whole other argument for Air Force style uniforms. 

If we're talking about the white/blue uniforms, I still say that the AFI prohibits members of the Air Force from wearing it.