Weight Standard ABU/BDU

[NCRblues]

its been the same for decades so what's all of a sudden wrong with it now??

What the main "anti beret" argument has come down to is as follows.

#1. Why are we giving one NCSA that is a little over two weeks long multiple awards (NCSA credit, NCSA ribbon, NBB patch AND a hat)

#2. What at NBB sets those attendees aside/above other CAP members?

#3. Is the hassle of having one member out of your unit able to show up to functions wearing something less than stellar for field use?

My answers

#1. We shouldn't be. I believe that the beret should be phased out with the end of the BDU. As stated before, I have attended NBB several times and loved LOVED every minute of it... Except the beret.

#2. Nothing. Now, many CAP members believe NBB attendees "help out" at the air show then get to see it. Not true. NBB is an AFRCC mission with the main objective to locate, find and silence the large (and I mean large) number of ELTs that occur with the stringent and stressful landing rules. A side objective is support of the air show with aircraft ground marshaling. It is a very very busy two weeks with limited time to just "see the show".

#3. I don't know. That's a question for the commander at each echelon.

I use to be a huge supporter of the beret itself, and have since changed my mind.

My idea for it is such... Continue to call the activity NBB. Nothing wrong with the name. Continue to hand out the beret even, but make it a non wearable item. Put it in a shadow box and call it a day. (Same with ranger tabs and orange hats, stow em)

[SMKITCHEN]

I hear what you mean about multiple awards for one event. With that said NCSA credit and the ribbon would be given regardless of whether this was NBB or Hawk Mountain, and a cadet or senior member forks out quite a bit for those events, and upon completion of any of these programs there really should be a credit and I guess a ribbon, we senior members get a ribbon just for passing phase 1 training, which doesn't take long at all.

I do however agree that a patch and beret does seem a bit over kill for one event, if it were any normal event. In my squadron we just had two members return from NBB, one for the first time and one for the second time. according to the one (who's a senior member) NBB is a real working environment, and all the members take part in a lot of hands on training, and earn my certifications that otherwise you may not learn unless you participate in every SAREX in your wing.

I feel like the patch is a given, and it marks that you completed that particular NCSA. The beret however could be seen as completion of one of the harder NCSA's? I don't know I've not attended one yet. I don't think it sets a particular member aside or make them seem more outstanding than somebody who didn't go to NBB.

I think ultimately we're either going to see the end of Berets in CAP, and start standardizing a core uniform style that every member has to wear (kinda like we have now but more strict) or the total opposite, Berets of different colors and meanings for different NCSA's, patches as far as the eye can see (until you hit your limit), and more distinctive insignia.

It doesn't really concern me that much, I just like to mentor and have a positive impact on people within the squadron and out in the community.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I hear what you mean about multiple awards for one event. With that said NCSA credit and the ribbon would be given regardless of whether this was NBB or Hawk Mountain, and a cadet or senior member forks out quite a bit for those events, and upon completion of any of these programs there really should be a credit and I guess a ribbon, we senior members get a ribbon just for passing phase 1 training, which doesn't take long at all.

Neither do cadet achievements, but every 2 months, for a year and half a cadet can earn a new ribbon.

I feel like the patch is a given, and it marks that you completed that particular NCSA. The beret however could be seen as completion of one of the harder NCSA's? I don't know I've not attended one yet. I don't think it sets a particular member aside or make them seem more outstanding than somebody who didn't go to NBB.

I thought Honor Guard Academy was pretty tough. Hours of PT, classes, and drill. Then some more PT, classes and drill. Two weeks of sweet sweet drill. And PT. and Classes.


But it certainly doesn't warrant a new hat.

[thebeggerpie]

 I just came from this year's NBB, and frankly if we got rid of the hat, I think the activity would improve vastly. I have never met more unprofessional CAP Cadet Officers in my entire career until I went there and it was because they wanted the beret. I have my beret sitting up on my hat shelf, but I don't think I'll be wearing it much.

[SMKITCHEN]

I hear what you mean about multiple awards for one event. With that said NCSA credit and the ribbon would be given regardless of whether this was NBB or Hawk Mountain, and a cadet or senior member forks out quite a bit for those events, and upon completion of any of these programs there really should be a credit and I guess a ribbon, we senior members get a ribbon just for passing phase 1 training, which doesn't take long at all.

Neither do cadet achievements, but every 2 months, for a year and half a cadet can earn a new ribbon.

I feel like the patch is a given, and it marks that you completed that particular NCSA. The beret however could be seen as completion of one of the harder NCSA's? I don't know I've not attended one yet. I don't think it sets a particular member aside or make them seem more outstanding than somebody who didn't go to NBB.

I thought Honor Guard Academy was pretty tough. Hours of PT, classes, and drill. Then some more PT, classes and drill. Two weeks of sweet sweet drill. And PT. and Classes.


But it certainly doesn't warrant a new hat.

I was a cadet, I realize the promotion process and the fact they get ribbons; its kind of common knowledge in CAP if your around cadets. I don't doubt that the Honor Guard academy is tough, that'd be my first choice if it were open to senior members, which it may be I don't know. I think the personal distinction of being a top driller, or top flight marshal, or proficient ground team member would be enough. I don't need a beret or hat, but I understand why there are some.

[raivo]

I wonder how many of those 100 spend time on deciding uniform issues? Might be like the old saying about having too many cooks in the kitchen, if they have to get all 100 to agree.

Very few. Specifically, the A1 (Personnel) functional area - which handles policy decisions on personnel, uniforms, manpower, and so on. CAP issues are just a drop in a bucket full of things A1 has to handle.

[etodd]

I wonder how many of those 100 spend time on deciding uniform issues? Might be like the old saying about having too many cooks in the kitchen, if they have to get all 100 to agree.

Very few. Specifically, the A1 (Personnel) functional area - which handles policy decisions on personnel, uniforms, manpower, and so on. CAP issues are just a drop in a bucket full of things A1 has to handle.

Thats what I was thinking.  In the corporate world that would be decisions made before lunch.  Government taking months and years to make decisions amuse me. Every little thing that drags out ... adds to our trillions in debt.

[DakRadz]

I thought Honor Guard Academy was pretty tough. Hours of PT, classes, and drill. Then some more PT, classes and drill. Two weeks of sweet sweet drill. And PT. and Classes.


But it certainly doesn't warrant a new hat.

Just a new uniform? [emoji6] [emoji39]

1st Lt Raduenz

[Майор Хаткевич]

I thought Honor Guard Academy was pretty tough. Hours of PT, classes, and drill. Then some more PT, classes and drill. Two weeks of sweet sweet drill. And PT. and Classes.


But it certainly doesn't warrant a new hat.

Just a new uniform?

1st Lt Raduenz

I said Honor Guard, not SuperDrillTeam(TM)