Senior ABUs at the Winter Command Council

[CAPDCCMOM]

Wow! Three pages so far. Core Values shot to H***. I wonder what the Cadets must be thinking when they read and watch how the Senior Members can bash each other like this. When will people be calling for the official Weigh In?

If we paid as much attention to our real mission and remembered what we all came in for, except for those that want to be the next Gen. G. S. Patton, we might not have the retention and recruiting issue that we have.

IMHO

[THRAWN]

Wow! Three pages so far. Core Values shot to H***. I wonder what the Cadets must be thinking when they read and watch how the Senior Members can bash each other like this. When will people be calling for the official Weigh In?

If we paid as much attention to our real mission and remembered what we all came in for, except for those that want to be the next Gen. G. S. Patton, we might not have the retention and recruiting issue that we have.

IMHO

The Patton job is taken. Weigh-ins have been on the table of discussion for some time. There have been much more....aggressive....threads on this topic. YMMV...

[CAPDCCMOM]

But is he/ she a poet like Patton was? That is the real test, and believing in reincarnation, riding white horses.....

[THRAWN]

But is he/ she a poet like Patton was? That is the real test, and believing in reincarnation, riding white horses.....

I am but this is no place for limericks....

[Майор Хаткевич]

When will people be calling for the official Weigh In?

Why not the first meeting a member attends each year?

[Luis R. Ramos]

LST-

Just an example on how one of your camera angles post has been used in real life. Regarding post 2, shots looking down.

I read some time ago in Feld Grau, a website about the World War 2 German soldier that those soldiers were just average. However photographers were instructed to photograph and film them below the shoulder up to make them look taller than they were. And people believed the photographs they saw...

[Майор Хаткевич]

LST-

Just an example on how one of your camera angles post has been used in real life. Regarding post 2, shots looking down.

I read some time ago in Feld Grau, a website about the World War 2 German soldier that those soldiers were just average. However photographers were instructed to photograph and film them below the shoulder up to make them look taller than they were. And people believed the photographs they saw...

It's the inverse of what my wife demands!

[USACAP]

If someone's fat, they're fat ...
Nothing wrong nor disrespectful with enforcing standards ...
That said, none of the folks I see in ABUs on that Flickr stream appear out of spec.
I've met all of the above in-person and, for their age, I'd bet you a dinner @ Old Ebbitt Grill they meet standards.

I completely agree, the double standard of absolute respect in person and total disrespect online is ridiculous, it's disrespect no matter where or when it's said.

Patton was one of the most exceptional, talented, and successful generals the US has ever fielded.
Men like him are few and far between in the history of a nation's military.

except for those that want to be the next Gen. G. S. Patton,

[PHall]

deleted

Nuking posts makes the mods mad, don't do it.
You want a post removed, ask them to do it.

[JeffDG]

I am being honest.   Most people do follow 39-1 and para 1.2.2. specifically.   In those case where they do not.  It is up to us to challenge those members and report them to higher authority.

I'm sure you are. Personal observation and ubiquitous photographic evidence from all over the dang place gives me a different impression.

That's a rather sweeping accusation that you are leveling against a large number of people.

If you have specific allegations make them.   If not, making such blanket accusations is highly disrespectful.

Oh don't be so dramatic, counselor.

And with all due respect for the other defensive peeps posting here, I didn't single out any individuals and I have no interest in doing so. Really, the faux indignation is a little much. People can look at the 2 dozen or so pictures linked in the OP and make up their own minds.

In which case you should be able to make specific allegations, rather than paint everyone with an overbroad brush.

Again, your broad brush accusations are highly disrespectful.

[Elihu.Lowery]

I for one am excited about the possibly that CAP may convert to the ABU. Why? Because I have 5 sets in my closet left over from my time in service and would like to use them again one day.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I for one am excited about the possibly that CAP may convert to the ABU. Why? Because I have 5 sets in my closet left over from my time in service and would like to use them again one day.

We probably have thousands of former cadets who have the same stash after their service contracts as well. Maybe some will rejoin?

[Storm Chaser]

I for one am excited about the possibly that CAP may convert to the ABU. Why? Because I have 5 sets in my closet left over from my time in service and would like to use them again one day.

We probably have thousands of former cadets who have the same stash after their service contracts as well. Maybe some will rejoin?

But they'll have to buy new boots.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I for one am excited about the possibly that CAP may convert to the ABU. Why? Because I have 5 sets in my closet left over from my time in service and would like to use them again one day.

We probably have thousands of former cadets who have the same stash after their service contracts as well. Maybe some will rejoin?

But they'll have to buy new boots.

But so would any other new/returning members.  :angel:

[Storm Chaser]

Sure. Choosing black boots benefits some members and choosing sage green benefits others. Unfortunately, members who have benefited from donated used boots in the past, especially cadets, are going to miss out on a ton of old, still serviceable green boots available now and in the future. Heck, if they were to approve tan boots that number would jump exponentially. The black boots "solution" is only good in the immediate future, but doesn't take into account the long term scarcity since most services don't have them anymore.

[arajca]

Sure. Choosing black boots benefits some members and choosing sage green benefits others. Unfortunately, members who have benefited from donated used boots in the past, especially cadets, are going to miss out on a ton of old, still serviceable green boots available now and in the future. Heck, if they were to approve tan boots that number would jump exponentially. The black boots "solution" is only good in the immediate future, but doesn't take into account the long term scarcity since most services don't have them anymore.

True, but there are a whole lot more folks than just the military using black boots. The costs for black boots, basic ones, are 60%-70% less than basic green suede boots. Of course, you can go high end and spend more, but the same is true with the green boots. Plus black boots have a much higher availability than the greens.

[Garibaldi]

Sure. Choosing black boots benefits some members and choosing sage green benefits others. Unfortunately, members who have benefited from donated used boots in the past, especially cadets, are going to miss out on a ton of old, still serviceable green boots available now and in the future. Heck, if they were to approve tan boots that number would jump exponentially. The black boots "solution" is only good in the immediate future, but doesn't take into account the long term scarcity since most services don't have them anymore.

True, but there are a whole lot more folks than just the military using black boots. The costs for black boots, basic ones, are 60%-70% less than basic green suede boots. Of course, you can go high end and spend more, but the same is true with the green boots. Plus black boots have a much higher availability than the greens.

Maybe make them optional, like give them a choice between the sage and black? I think the blouse, with the new insignia, will be distinctive enough.

[JeffDG]

Sure. Choosing black boots benefits some members and choosing sage green benefits others. Unfortunately, members who have benefited from donated used boots in the past, especially cadets, are going to miss out on a ton of old, still serviceable green boots available now and in the future. Heck, if they were to approve tan boots that number would jump exponentially. The black boots "solution" is only good in the immediate future, but doesn't take into account the long term scarcity since most services don't have them anymore.

True, but there are a whole lot more folks than just the military using black boots. The costs for black boots, basic ones, are 60%-70% less than basic green suede boots. Of course, you can go high end and spend more, but the same is true with the green boots. Plus black boots have a much higher availability than the greens.

Maybe make them optional, like give them a choice between the sage and black? I think the blouse, with the new insignia, will be distinctive enough.

The NUC disagrees, and they had USAF representation on the committee.  The black boots were an integral distinctiveness element as part of the proposal.

The Command Council was not asked to vote "Green or Black", it was "ABUs with black boots, Yea or Nay"

[Storm Chaser]

Sure. Choosing black boots benefits some members and choosing sage green benefits others. Unfortunately, members who have benefited from donated used boots in the past, especially cadets, are going to miss out on a ton of old, still serviceable green boots available now and in the future. Heck, if they were to approve tan boots that number would jump exponentially. The black boots "solution" is only good in the immediate future, but doesn't take into account the long term scarcity since most services don't have them anymore.

True, but there are a whole lot more folks than just the military using black boots. The costs for black boots, basic ones, are 60%-70% less than basic green suede boots. Of course, you can go high end and spend more, but the same is true with the green boots. Plus black boots have a much higher availability than the greens.

Maybe make them optional, like give them a choice between the sage and black? I think the blouse, with the new insignia, will be distinctive enough.

The NUC disagrees, and they had USAF representation on the committee.  The black boots were an integral distinctiveness element as part of the proposal.

The Command Council was not asked to vote "Green or Black", it was "ABUs with black boots, Yea or Nay"

We know that, but just because it was the only option put for a vote doesn't mean it was the best or only option.

Obviously, there's no perfect solution and no matter which one is picked, they'll be pros and cons, and members supporting or opposing each option. Still, if the name tapes are not distinctive enough on the ABUs, then the gray epaulets are not either on the service uniforms. I'm pretty sure distinctiveness, while certainly considered, was not the primary determining factor.

[PHall]

Black boots are much more available then the green boots.
Cops and Fire Fighters wear black boots. So the odds that you can find a pair in your town are pretty good.