Blue BDUs

[Thunderbird]

Are the Cadet Blue BDUs a dark navy blue, or a normal navy blue? When I go to shop for them, they have two different shades.

Thank you.

[abdsp51]

Unless you are 18 and outside of H/W cadets don't wear the BBDU.

[Capt Thompson]

Correct, Seniors or Cadets over 18 who are out of height/weight standards wear BBDU's, which are Dark Navy, not Navy Blue or LAPD Navy. (Source: Vanguard, as 39-1 doesn't specify). Cadets under 18 wear woodland camo.

[Capt Thompson]

The BBDU's that Vanguard sells are the Dark Navy from Propper. Rothco has Navy Blue, and not Dark Navy, which I assume will be lighter than the Propper.

[Storm Chaser]

And those cadets 18 or older who have to wear the dark blue BDU because of height/weight restrictions must still meet the same grooming standards as with the woodland BDU or other USAF-style uniforms.

[lordmonar]

Unless you are 18 and outside of H/W cadets don't wear the BBDU.

I don't know if that is true per the regulations.

I know it is true in spirit....generally speaking we want the cadets in USAF style uniforms unless they don't meet weight standards and are over 18.

But if one wanted to and it was approved by their commander....they could wear it...I see no rule making it absolutely forbidden.


EDIT....I take that back...I found the reference.

1.2.3.2. Cadets will wear the USAF-style uniforms as outlined in this manual as a key component of their cadet experience. However, cadets over age 18 who are not eligible to wear the USAF-style uniforms due to not meeting weight standards are authorized to wear all Corporate-style uniform combinations, except the Corporate Working Uniform since it does not allow for wear of rank insignia.

[PHall]

Unless you are 18 and outside of H/W cadets don't wear the BBDU.

I don't know if that is true per the regulations.

I know it is true in spirit....generally speaking we want the cadets in USAF style uniforms unless they don't meet weight standards and are over 18.

But if one wanted to and it was approved by their commander....they could wear it...I see no rule making it absolutely forbidden.


EDIT....I take that back...I found the reference.

1.2.3.2. Cadets will wear the USAF-style uniforms as outlined in this manual as a key component of their cadet experience. However, cadets over age 18 who are not eligible to wear the USAF-style uniforms due to not meeting weight standards are authorized to wear all Corporate-style uniform combinations, except the Corporate Working Uniform since it does not allow for wear of rank insignia.

Pat, RTFM... 

[lordmonar]

If they would just stop changing it!!

[Damron]

And those cadets 18 or older who have to wear the dark blue BDU because of height/weight restrictions must still meet the same grooming standards as with the woodland BDU or other USAF-style uniforms.

Cadets under 18 may wear corporate uniforms with a religious waiver, with the exception of the blue polo, as it doesn't allow rank insignia.

[SarDragon]

And those cadets 18 or older who have to wear the dark blue BDU because of height/weight restrictions must still meet the same grooming standards as with the woodland BDU or other USAF-style uniforms.

Did I miss something in the manual? Where does it say that cadets must meet AF grooming standards when not wearing an AF-style uniform?

Yes, you did. Right here -

2.12.1.5. All members must meet personal grooming standards appropriate to the uniform that they are wearing (USAF standards for the USAF-style uniform, and CAP standards for the Corporate-style uniform). Cadets must meet USAF grooming standards regardless of which type of uniform is worn.

Cadets under 18 may wear corporate uniforms with a religious waiver, with the exception of the blue polo, as it doesn't allow rank insignia.

And where's your citation for that?

[lordmonar]

The religious waivers section of the manual is worded really confusingly.

By my read....cadets can get waivers for USAF style uniforms....please follow the instructions.

Seniors can't get religious waivers for USAF uniforms....they must wear corporates....and they must get waivers too.

The key here is that both cadets and seniors must ask for the waiver from NHQ....and they will make the determination.

[Damron]

The religious waivers section of the manual is worded really confusingly.

By my read....cadets can get waivers for USAF style uniforms....please follow the instructions.

Seniors can't get religious waivers for USAF uniforms....they must wear corporates....and they must get waivers too.

The key here is that both cadets and seniors must ask for the waiver from NHQ....and they will make the determination.

The religious waiver addresses two issues.  First, it allows cadets to wear corporate uniforms instead of AF-style uniforms.  Second, it allows cadets to wear corporate uniforms with approved conditions, including grooming. Remember, 18 year old cadets must abide by grooming standards, even when wearing corporates.

Are there any common waivers for AF uniforms? Medical waiver for beards? Permitted religious apparel or icons?

[Damron]

And those cadets 18 or older who have to wear the dark blue BDU because of height/weight restrictions must still meet the same grooming standards as with the woodland BDU or other USAF-style uniforms.

Did I miss something in the manual? Where does it say that cadets must meet AF grooming standards when not wearing an AF-style uniform?

Yes, you did. Right here -

2.12.1.5. All members must meet personal grooming standards appropriate to the uniform that they are wearing (USAF standards for the USAF-style uniform, and CAP standards for the Corporate-style uniform). Cadets must meet USAF grooming standards regardless of which type of uniform is worn.

Cadets under 18 may wear corporate uniforms with a religious waiver, with the exception of the blue polo, as it doesn't allow rank insignia.

And where's your citation for that?

You caught me before I found the citation and edited my post, with regards to grooming standards.

I can't readily navigate the manual on my phone, but maybe you can address and correct  my understandings.

1) AF establishes standards for wear of AF uniforms - I think this is clearly mentioned or accepted.
2) I don't believe CAP can waive any of these standards and can only waive corporate uniform standards. 
3) If CAP can't waive issues related to AF uniforms, then any accommodations must apply to corporate uniforms - I think this is clearly mentioned.
4) I don't think the manual addresses grooming under religious accommodation, but hair and beards are the most common requested accommodations by Muslims (beards) and Sikh's (hair).  The manual seems to focus on the wear of apparel and iconography (yamakas, jewelry, etc).

Given that CAP doesn't have the legal protections of the military, they dance lightly around the subject for legal reasons.  They use the wording "shall consider wear of corporate uniforms" or something close to that.

Question, are you aware of any waivers granted for AF-style uniforms, religious or medical?  Please detail.

[LSThiker]

The religious waivers section of the manual is worded really confusingly.

By my read....cadets can get waivers for USAF style uniforms....please follow the instructions.

Seniors can't get religious waivers for USAF uniforms....they must wear corporates....and they must get waivers too.

The key here is that both cadets and seniors must ask for the waiver from NHQ....and they will make the determination.

Pat,

Sorry, but this not correct.  The USAF-style uniform already has a preset items of religious apparel approval (see for example 6.3.1.6 as this list include items such as jewelry and yamakas).  CAP cannot grant waivers under any circumstance for any member for the USAF-style uniform (1.5.1.6).  For senior members that require beards for religious reasons will only wear corporate style uniforms (3.2.2.3).  For those items outside of this list, it requires a religious waiver that is only approved for the corporate-style uniform (1.5).  Since SMs are allowed the wear of the corporate-style uniform and thus would not need a religious waiver for certain items (i.e. beards), then they should consider just the wear of a the corporate uniform instead of the USAF-style uniform.  For cadets, as they are not allowed to wear the Corporate-style uniform except those 18 years and older and that do not meet the weight requirements, they are required to get CAP/CC approval through NHQ/DP for religious waivers and the permission to wear the corporate style uniform (1.5.1.6).  If approved, then that cadet is only allowed to wear the corporate-style uniform with that religious waiver. 

So there are two possibilities in which a cadet may be granted the wear of the Corporate-style uniform:

1)  18 years older and do not meet the weight requirements
2)  religious waiver approved by CAP/CC

However, unless the approval is for a cadet to wear a beard due to religious reasons, then regardless the cadet must still maintain grooming standards (2.12.1.5).

Basically, anything that would prohibit a cadet the ability to wear the USAF-style uniform unless already approved (18 year weight issue), then a waiver is required from the CAP/CC for that cadet to wear the corporate-style uniform.

[UWONGO2]

1.2.3.2. Cadets will wear the USAF-style uniforms as outlined in this manual as a key component of their cadet experience. However, cadets over age 18 who are not eligible to wear the USAF-style uniforms due to not meeting weight standards are authorized to wear all Corporate-style uniform combinations, except the Corporate Working Uniform since it does not allow for wear of rank insignia.

Have cadets always been restricted from wearing BBDUs unless over 18 and out of the H/W requirements? My wing's ground team standardized on BBDUs for all members and there are a couple of cadets on the team. They don't wear their BBDUs unless working with the GT and I'm sure the ground team will let them continue on the team wearing the woodland cammo. I just hate to think they wasted money on a uniform they can no longer wear.

[jeders]

1.2.3.2. Cadets will wear the USAF-style uniforms as outlined in this manual as a key component of their cadet experience. However, cadets over age 18 who are not eligible to wear the USAF-style uniforms due to not meeting weight standards are authorized to wear all Corporate-style uniform combinations, except the Corporate Working Uniform since it does not allow for wear of rank insignia.

Have cadets always been restricted from wearing BBDUs unless over 18 and out of the H/W requirements? My wing's ground team standardized on BBDUs for all members and there are a couple of cadets on the team. They don't wear their BBDUs unless working with the GT and I'm sure the ground team will let them continue on the team wearing the woodland cammo. I just hate to think they wasted money on a uniform they can no longer wear.

I reviewed the old manual, and it did not have the age 18 restriction.

[LSThiker]

Have cadets always been restricted from wearing BBDUs unless over 18 and out of the H/W requirements? My wing's ground team standardized on BBDUs for all members and there are a couple of cadets on the team. They don't wear their BBDUs unless working with the GT and I'm sure the ground team will let them continue on the team wearing the woodland cammo. I just hate to think they wasted money on a uniform they can no longer wear.

No, actually it was specifically allowed in CAPM 39-1 dated 2005:

Field Uniform: The CAP field uniform is an optional uniform that may be worn by both cadets and senior members for field activities or any time the AF-style BDU uniform is normally worn

However, the age/HW restrictions were in place prior:

Senior members and cadets who are 18 and older must meet CAP weight standards in order to wear the AF style uniform.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I joined CAP from 1987 to 1989, themn re-joined in 1996.

The H-W standards have been there at least since 1987, and I suspect, even before that.