drivel... was: Navy Awards on Cap Uniform

[Shuman 14]

Ahh, good... thought I missed something with all of the reg changes this year.

shuman14, why are you so fired up about something that doesn't affect you?

To answer your question, I'm going to be as polite as I can but this is something that just seems to burn me the wrong way.

Yes I am only a Patron member of CAP, so no I don't wear a CAP uniform.

If I was to become an active member I would/could wear the USAF-style uniform; pretty positive that if I'm meeting height/weight requirements in the Army and I'm clean shaven with a high-n-tight haircut, I should not have any issues there.

As a member of the CAP team, it bothers me when I sit back and observe members of the same team treated like second class citizens yet seem to do more work than those in the "first" class.

That hurts morale and makes really two teams. If it were up to me, everyone would be in one corporate uniform and then this silly issue would be dead.

In summary, if you're dis-allowing active duty awards from the G/W's then they need to be dis-allowed from the USAF-style uniform as well.

Technically neither the grey/white or the Blues are the USAF's uniform when worn as CAP uniform. Both are distinctive, seperate and "low-light" visible from the the USAF's uniform by CAP-USAF's own directive.

So either Military awards and decorations have a place on both CAP uniforms or they have a place on neither.

[Shuman 14]

Ahh, good... thought I missed something with all of the reg changes this year.

shuman14, why are you so fired up about something that doesn't affect you?

Because he's bored and a self admitted TROLL.

You call me a troll because you consider me an "outsider"; still I see the glaring issues and try address them in order make CAP a better organization.

So, great and all knowing "insider", what have you done to correct or address these issues over your many years in CAP.

Anyone, with a day in a uniformed service can take a look at the CAP uniform problem from a distance and see that its pretty frakked up.

Why is it someone, so "close" as you can't? 

[Shuman 14]

I asked at the National Conference Uniform seminar why military ribbons couldn't be worn on the G/W in light of the fact that the DoD and VA strongly urge veterans to display their awards during holidays and when engaged in activities similar to CAP. Basically blown off

Sir,

I'm guessing if you look around that conference, I'm guessing you've seen some "fluffy" personnel squeezed into USAF-style CAP uniforms and no one has addressed it.

So if a member were to put their Military decorations onto a G/W ensemble, would anyone bother to address that either?

Talk about a log in the eye of CAP.

[Shuman 14]

We have a member who has multiple Distinguished Flying Crosses (Vietnam) but he can't wear them.  It's sad really.

Absolutely concur.

[Flying Pig]

Perhaps this makes me a terrible commander, who picks and chooses what suits my needs.  But Ive had members who were a little plump fit nicely in to the USAF uniform.  But they still looked good, pressed, cleaned, shined, haircut.   I never said a thing about it.  Yes...... I should have been stripped of all command responsibility    I was more concerned that they were contributing members.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

SDF/SG are part of the militia of the state. They're NOT a civilian auxiliary like we are. Very different things.

Your point is taken.  However, and someone correct me if I am wrong, even though they are subject to their State military justice laws, they are not combat troops and do not train with weaponry.  Their function, except for armoury support to the National Guard, is much like ours in many ways.  They do a lot of DR and some SAR.  Virginia has an aviation unit with missions virtually identical to CAP.

http://www.vdf.virginia.gov/capabilities.html

I almost joined an SDF around the same time I joined CAP; except that the SDF told me I could not have dual membership.  I respect them.  They are, in the main, great volunteers.

However, I have seen several SDF members in person, and, believe me, their H/W would keep them from wearing the AF uniform in CAP...yet they are allowed to in their SDF.

It would seem to me that the Air Force would have at least some concern over how their uniform is worn...by anyone wearing it: Active, Guard, Reserve, CAP, ROTC, SDF.

[Eclipse]

I almost joined an SDF around the same time I joined CAP; except that the SDF told me I could not have dual membership. 

Can't have dual membership?

How, exactly, would they restrict that?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I almost joined an SDF around the same time I joined CAP; except that the SDF told me I could not have dual membership. 

Can't have dual membership?

How, exactly, would they restrict that?

That is what the recruiter told me.  He said, "it's one or the other."

[Spaceman3750]

they are not combat troops and do not train with weaponry.

There are still several that train with firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force#Active_state_defense_forces

I think this list might be a little out of date though, I have it in my head that Alaska disarmed their SDF awhile back, but I don't have a cite for it.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Even those that are unarmed, can become armed in an emergency.

New York State Guard is unarmed. Shortly after September 11, almost a week after, the Governor armed them, they were given about a week of firearm training, and sent to the subway in New York City. I do not recall exactly but I seem to recall they were deployed alongside police.

[Shuman 14]

Even those that are unarmed, can become armed in an emergency.

New York State Guard is unarmed. Shortly after September 11, almost a week after, the Governor armed them, they were given about a week of firearm training, and sent to the subway in New York City. I do not recall exactly but I seem to recall they were deployed alongside police.

Not just in an emergency, in Louisiana, if you are a "civilian" employee of State Military Department, and not a member of the ARNG or AFNG, as a condition of employment you are required to join the State Guard as a condition of employment. At several facilities they have armed guards and they wear LASG uniforms and carry issued M-9s.

I also know that the California Military Reserve (CAMR) has ready response teams that regulary train with firearms.

Each State is different in its approach to "arming" their SDF/SG/SMR forces.

[Shuman 14]

they are not combat troops and do not train with weaponry.

There are still several that train with firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force#Active_state_defense_forces

I think this list might be a little out of date though, I have it in my head that Alaska disarmed their SDF awhile back, but I don't have a cite for it.

You are correct. The story I heard was that they had a large group of Alaskan Separatists and other "militia" (note the small "m") types join and basically took over. The governor's office stepped in and disarmed them and deeply cut the Guard back in scope and mission.

Sad really, at one point after 9-11, the AKSG members were conducting regular armed patrol and security duties along the pipeline, the majority were trained and certified by the Alaskan State Troopers as State Constables, and had a maritime unit with modern patrol boats and an Air Wing operating WWII era prop-driven observation planes that were still in the State's inventory.

Now they're a shell that can conduct communications and shelter operations to assist FEMA in an emergency.

[Storm Chaser]

You call me a troll because you consider me an "outsider"; still I see the glaring issues and try address them in order make CAP a better organization. (emphasis mine)

By posting comments in CAP Talk? If you really think we have a problem, then I encourage you to "address" it through your chain of command. That's the proper forum for that.

[PHall]

Ahh, good... thought I missed something with all of the reg changes this year.

shuman14, why are you so fired up about something that doesn't affect you?

Because he's bored and a self admitted TROLL.

You call me a troll because you consider me an "outsider"

No, I call you a troll because YOU even called yourself a troll when asked several months ago why you make so many "pointed" comments.

[SARDOC]

Their function, except for armoury support to the National Guard, is much like ours in many ways.  They do a lot of DR and some SAR.  Virginia has an aviation unit with missions virtually identical to CAP.

It's my understanding that the Virginia Defense Force has disbanded their aviation unit.  Pretty much because it was a duplicated service already provided by Civil Air Patrol and that CAP was a participating member of the Virginia Search and Rescue Council and trains regularly with other SAR organizations.  The VDF didn't do that.  Their aircraft were privately owned and some weren't really the best platform for SAR.  No Direction finding equipment, no glass cockpits no additional radios etc...

The state decided to stop providing funding this as they were already providing funding to CAP.

[Flying Pig]

Ahh, good... thought I missed something with all of the reg changes this year.

shuman14, why are you so fired up about something that doesn't affect you?

Because he's bored and a self admitted TROLL.

You call me a troll because you consider me an "outsider"

No, I call you a troll because YOU even called yourself a troll when asked several months ago why you make so many "pointed" comments.

Maybe I misunderstood... Shuman, I didnt think you were even a member?  Ever?

[Panache]

For the record, I am not a member of the NUC; all I did was work on the 39-1 uniform illustrations with Lt Col Perrenot.

It's funny that you feel the need to distance yourself from the NUC.

[lordmonar]

For the record, I am not a member of the NUC; all I did was work on the 39-1 uniform illustrations with Lt Col Perrenot.

It's funny that you feel the need to distance yourself from the NUC.

setting the record straight is hardly "distancing" yourself from the NUC. 

[Garp]

We have a member who has multiple Distinguished Flying Crosses (Vietnam) but he can't wear them.  It's sad really.

Absolutely concur.

Maybe it's because AFI 36-2903 doesn't authorize the wear of ribbons on civilian attire?  Is there an authorization in there for that?

[PHall]

We have a member who has multiple Distinguished Flying Crosses (Vietnam) but he can't wear them.  It's sad really.

Absolutely concur.

Maybe it's because AFI 36-2903 doesn't authorize the wear of ribbons on civilian attire?  Is there an authorization in there for that?

AFI 36-2903 does authorize the wear of ribbons and medals on civilian attire. I'll let you look it up.