drivel... was: Navy Awards on Cap Uniform

[Panache]

Go ahead, adopt the beret for wear with the grey and whites.
You guys will be right back here whining about how people are not wearing the beret properly.
Anybody here want to bet against that?

Oh God, no.  I hate those [darn] wannabe-hats.

[AlphaSigOU]

Say no to the beanie beret! 

[ColonelJack]

In the immortal words of Richard Nixon ... "Let me make myself perfectly clear!"

I do not like the silly French hat.  In fact, I detest it.  It looks ridiculous at best.  I wanted to make clear that it would take a LOT of compromise on my part to even consider wearing one.

I would like to see some kind of headgear with the G/W, simply because it's a uniform and should be treated as such.  If the end-of-the-line alternative is the silly French hat or nothing, I'd choose the silly French hat - but I'd be holding my nose while I did so.

Jack

[ZigZag911]

I'm not wild about the beret either.

If someone has a better idea, let's hear it!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I will never, ever understand the antipathy toward the beret...and I think I have demonstrated that it is not just a French hat.  The majority of the world's armed forces use it and do not give it a second thought.

Maybe it's because I wore a red one as a Boy Scout all those years ago.

Better ideas?  West Pointers wear a grey flight-type cap made by Bernard Cap.

http://bernardcap.com/academies.htm

However, TPTB are going to be even less likely to approve that for us, because it is a hat worn by a military service (Army officer cadets).

They sure are not going to authorise anything remotely resembling something blue and/or used by the Air Force.

If you're looking for CAP and/or the Air Force to authorise the blue flight cap for the G/W...keep wishing, because it ain't gonna happen.

[ColonelJack]

I think I have demonstrated that it is not just a French hat.

You are right, my friend.  It's a SILLY French hat.

The majority of the world's armed forces use it and do not give it a second thought.

There are so many good lines I could use here ... I can't choose one.   

Maybe it's because I wore a red one as a Boy Scout all those years ago.

Ah-HA!  Now I understand!  You've been tainted by the silly French hat!  (I'm just teasing you, by the way.)

Better ideas?  West Pointers wear a grey flight-type cap made by Bernard Cap.

http://bernardcap.com/academies.htm

However, TPTB are going to be even less likely to approve that for us, because it is a hat worn by a military service (Army officer cadets).

They sure are not going to authorise anything remotely resembling something blue and/or used by the Air Force.

If you're looking for CAP and/or the Air Force to authorise the blue flight cap for the G/W...keep wishing, because it ain't gonna happen.

Now you're on to something, my friend!  But, alas, I fear you're also correct on how TPTB will see it.  Even if only a couple thousand guys (and gals) wear it, it is indeed worn by members of the Army ...  thus, a no-go as far as CAP is concerned.

Ah, well ...

Jack

[Grumpy]

I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this but, here are a few draw backs to it.  The thing is HOT in the summer, there's no visor to protect your eyes from the sun and when you're not wearing it where can you put it?  Can't put it in your pocket, can't place it under an epaulet.  At least with a flight cap type, you can keep it under your belt and it has a clean appearance.

Of course, we could wear the beanie with a propeller.  It could act as a cooling device for us kids with the extended faces.

[Storm Chaser]

there's no visor to protect your eyes from the sun

Not arguing in favor of the beret here, but this one argument (which I've heard a lot) is not a good one, as flight caps don't have visors either.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I might remind that a flight cap does not have a visor to protect the eyes.

^^^But there is no - nein, nyet, non, geen, няма, не, nej, nicht, nincs, nulla - once more, with feeling, NO - way that TPTB are going to let us have anything resembling a flight cap.

So we are stuck with the goofball, unprofessional looking "ball caps" of VG, hoping that we can get one of the non-US (http://bernardcap.com/foreignMil.htm) or airline versions of Bernard Cap's offerings (http://bernardcap.com/airline.htm), or contact William Scully Limited of Montreal to adopt something from our northern neighbours (http://williamscully.ca/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=22684).

Or individual members can take a chance on finding an old, obsolete Air Force flight cap without insignia (the old ones were almost as much grey as blue), or a grey Bundeswehr cap.

Believe me, I am a firm believer in the Chain of Command (and I am NOT advising circumventing it), but in this case it has been proven that TPTB either aren't listening/don't care about what the membership who want a GOOD headdress for that order of dress and take the attitude of "shut-up, sit down and colour."

Maybe by individuals just wearing something...someone will take note and say, "hey, that looks good..."

But again we come to the "fart-in-a-hurricane" chances...

[Ned]

If you will forgive the observation - but some of you spend far, far more time worrying about what the leadership thinks about uniforms than the leadership actually spends thinking about uniforms.

Restated, the leadership spends far more time thinking about actual missions and running the corporation than about what hat should or should not be worn with a given uniform.

And that is the way it should be, don't you think?


We have a uniform committee that meets from time to time to discuss practical and aesthetic issues for our uniforms.  If you want to make a proposal, make a proposal via the established procedure described in paragraph 13.2 in the CAPR 39-1. 

Of course you are absolutely free to keep discussing uniform trivia here on CAPTalk.  But, again, if you will forgive the observation, uniform opinions are personal, infinitely varied, and almost always passionately held.  Just reflect on this thread alone.  Nobody seems able to convince anybody else of the "rightness" of their personal aesthetic opinons.

Nobody.

Maybe that's why the thread title is apt.  Drivel.

[Storm Chaser]

I agree with Ned.

^^^But there is no - nein, nyet, non, geen, няма, не, nej, nicht, nincs, nulla - once more, with feeling, NO - way that TPTB are going to let us have anything resembling a flight cap.

You don't really know that. I would venture to say that the odds that a beret would be approved are lower than a flight cap. That said, another option would be a service cap, which is not just used by the military, but by airline pilots as well. A service cap, while more expensive, would look nice with the aviator shirt.

The best course of action for those who really want a different headgear for the G/W combo is to follow Ned's advice and submit their proposals through the proper channels.

[Eclipse]

If you will forgive the observation - but some of you spend far, far more time worrying about what the leadership thinks about uniforms than the leadership actually spends thinking about uniforms.

Clearly.

Restated, the leadership spends far more time thinking about actual missions and running the corporation than about what hat should or should not be worn with a given uniform.

And that is the way it should be, don't you think?

Hmm...hard to say.

If CAP was firing on all 8 of 8 cylinders, or maybe even 6, then you could make the argument that everyone is
too busy for this sort of thing, and in kind, the members would be so engaged and full of the benefits and rewards of
membership that they wouldn't care much, either.

Or, you could make the argument that this is a legitimate concern of a portion of the membership,
address it for 15 minutes, and move on.

Neither is happening, so members have plenty of free time to think about "trivial" matters.

[Storm Chaser]

Does anyone know how many formal proposals for a corporate aviator shirt uniform headgear have been submitted and rejected by the NUC, CAP/CC, CAP-USAF/CC, etc.?

[Grumpy]

I might remind that a flight cap does not have a visor to protect the eyes.

^^^But there is no - nein, nyet, non, geen, няма, не, nej, nicht, nincs, nulla - once more, with feeling, NO - way that TPTB are going to let us have anything resembling a flight cap.

So we are stuck with the goofball, unprofessional looking "ball caps" of VG, hoping that we can get one of the non-US (http://bernardcap.com/foreignMil.htm) or airline versions of Bernard Cap's offerings (http://bernardcap.com/airline.htm), or contact William Scully Limited of Montreal to adopt something from our northern neighbours (http://williamscully.ca/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=22684).

Or individual members can take a chance on finding an old, obsolete Air Force flight cap without insignia (the old ones were almost as much grey as blue), or a grey Bundeswehr cap.

Believe me, I am a firm believer in the Chain of Command (and I am NOT advising circumventing it), but in this case it has been proven that TPTB either aren't listening/don't care about what the membership who want a GOOD headdress for that order of dress and take the attitude of "shut-up, sit down and colour."

Maybe by individuals just wearing something...someone will take note and say, "hey, that looks good..."

But again we come to the "fart-in-a-hurricane" chances...

Hey I like the yachting cap myself.

For Ned,

I was just starting to have fun here.  Darn  

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Does anyone know how many formal proposals for a corporate aviator shirt uniform headgear have been submitted and rejected by the NUC, CAP/CC, CAP-USAF/CC, etc.?

It would be nice if they would tell us.

However, I also wonder how many have been submitted but got stonewalled at lower echelons.

Unfortunately, too many of our members look at the G/W kit as they do the polo shirt - it is convenient, I can keep it in the car and whether or not it looks good (clean, pressed) is way down on the list.  I have seen some members wear it like they had slept in it, with grey trousers so threadbare that one can almost see through them.  I believe that segment would not care one way or the other about a headgear, simply because they do not appear to care about the uniform itself.

Even though I do not like it, when I wear it I do my best to make sure it is kitted out properly, cleaned, pressed, etc. - just as I would the blue "class B" uniform.

One proposal I have floated on here (to resounding indifference) is a setup something like what Air America wore - though I am not necessarily advocating sleeve striping.

http://www.air-america.net/uni.htm

The grey (at least in the pictures) is very close to our shoulder marks and nameplates.

I like that setup.  To me it bridges the quasi-airline/quasi-military looks quite well.

I have a minimum-change proposal, which some on here have read, but I have not submitted it, because, quite honestly, I do not believe it would get any further than Group.  My Squadron CC would probably say "hey, that's pretty neat!" but Group would probably say "we don't need any kind of changes" and put it in the CS file.

[PHall]

Does anyone know how many formal proposals for a corporate aviator shirt uniform headgear have been submitted and rejected by the NUC, CAP/CC, CAP-USAF/CC, etc.?

It would be nice if they would tell us.

Have you asked them?   Or is it easier to whine about it here on CAPTalk?

[TarRiverRat]

Of course, we could wear the beanie with a propeller.  It could act as a cooling device for us kids with the extended faces.

It will need to be a blue beanie with a red three prop.

[Panache]

If you will forgive the observation - but some of you spend far, far more time worrying about what the leadership thinks about uniforms than the leadership actually spends thinking about uniforms.

...

And that is the way it should be, don't you think?

I'm sure those in Public Affairs / Marketing would disagree with this opinion.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Does anyone know how many formal proposals for a corporate aviator shirt uniform headgear have been submitted and rejected by the NUC, CAP/CC, CAP-USAF/CC, etc.?

It would be nice if they would tell us.

Have you asked them?   Or is it easier to whine about it here on CAPTalk?

Yes - insofar as a lowly Captain has access to TPTB.  I have asked various squadron CC's...and they say they "don't know/don't care/can't figure it out/that's way above my paygrade."

I believe that is called "using the chain."

[PHall]

Does anyone know how many formal proposals for a corporate aviator shirt uniform headgear have been submitted and rejected by the NUC, CAP/CC, CAP-USAF/CC, etc.?

It would be nice if they would tell us.

Have you asked them?   Or is it easier to whine about it here on CAPTalk?

Yes - insofar as a lowly Captain has access to TPTB.  I have asked various squadron CC's...and they say they "don't know/don't care/can't figure it out/that's way above my paygrade."

I believe that is called "using the chain."

So whining here on CAPTalk is "using the chain" too?   Interesting....  They never covered that in any of the PME courses I've taken over the years.