A possible jacket for the aviator G/W kit?

[a2capt]

What happens in PAWG, stays in PAWG. Where it belongs. ;-)
..and yes, that initial jacket referenced, is basically a service line type item. Gas station, fuel truck, etc. As is the shirt under it. The material it's made of even reflects that more. I'd prefer a little better look than that.


But more than that, right now, near -anything- is already 'approved' to be used. Now, if you are wanting to add specific items to it.. I see where you're going.

[Devil Doc]

I thought I heard an Birdie state that the Orange Ball caps will have an Metal Rank insignia and our Last name Embroidered. Oh well, I dont have my rank on my hat, but I do have my Last name embroidered on the Strap. Anywho......

Im the last person that cares about wearing rank, Ive been a 1st Lt for awhile now, Im just now getting to changing the ranks on my BDUs

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Though the chair of the uniform committee disagrees with me, I'd like to see the aviator shirt combo stick to a monochrome color scheme of white/gray/black.

It is that very "monochrome-ness" that I dislike.  I feel like an old photo negative wearing grey, white and black.

As to the Texaco allusions...when I was a little kid, and Texaco was more widespread throughout the country (the only place I've seen them in decades is Canada), my (birth) father worked at a Texaco station, working his way up from pump jockey to head mechanic.  I never saw him wear a jacket like those referenced.  All I ever saw him wear were very dark-green shirt and pants with the Texaco logo above one pocket and his first name above the other, and never a hat.

But to "stir the stink" a bit...I also found this jacket (French Air Force surplus) - and it has epaulettes.  It looks somewhere between blue and grey.



Of course, the "blue-haters" on the corporatist side would probably think "EEK!  It'll tick off the Air Force!"

[a2capt]

That one actually looks .. somewhat decent. $20 bucks.. even for casual use.

[Mustang]

Though the chair of the uniform committee disagrees with me, I'd like to see the aviator shirt combo stick to a monochrome color scheme of white/gray/black.

It is that very "monochrome-ness" that I dislike.  I feel like an old photo negative wearing grey, white and black.

As opposed to the blue on blue on blue on blue of the AF uniform?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As opposed to the blue on blue on blue on blue of the AF uniform?

Blue is at least a colour.  Grey and white, in my view (and I am not colourblind) are not.

Also, with very, very few exceptions (the Swiss Air Force comes to mind), air forces throughout the world wear some shade of blue or blue-grey.

Nor is black, even though I admittedly wear a lot of it (no, I'm not related to Johnny Cash).

[Storm Chaser]

Well, we're not an Air Force, so what Air Forces around the world wear is not really relevant to CAP. That said, while I like blue and wouldn't have a problem with a blue corporate uniform, those with decision authority have chosen grey and I'm fine with that too.

I have no problem with gray trousers, but I do with the fact that medium gray is too vague a description. I also hate that because different types and styles of pants can be worn with this uniform, that it barely resembles a uniform at all. I know this is done to give the membership flexibility on acquiring these and that cost is a factor too. But a real uniform is, after all, uniformed.

I also agree with many that a service coat/jacket is much needed to bring this uniform on par with the AF-style counterpart. And the hat... well, if it was up to me, none of the service uniforms would have hats, but that's irrelevant to the discussion. Many members would like a flight cap equivalent and I think it's only fair.

Why not give the members what they want? With a long phase-in/phase-out and by making some of these optional, no one would be adversely affected, but many members would be happy with the changes.

[Eclipse]

White is actually the colour of the combination of all colours of the visible spectrum.

And black is the colour of my love's true hair...

[lordmonar]

Well, we're not an Air Force, so what Air Forces around the world wear is not really relevant to CAP. That said, while I like blue and wouldn't have a problem with a blue corporate uniform, those with decision authority have chosen grey and I'm fine with that too.

I have no problem with gray trousers, but I do with the fact that medium gray is too vague a description. I also hate that because different types and styles of pants can be worn with this uniform, that it barely resembles a uniform at all. I know this is done to give the membership flexibility on acquiring these and that cost is a factor too. But a real uniform is, after all, uniformed.

I also agree with many that a service coat/jacket is much needed to bring this uniform on par with the AF-style counterpart. And the hat... well, if it was up to me, none of the service uniforms would have hats, but that's irrelevant to the discussion. Many members would like a flight cap equivalent and I think it's only fair.

Why not give the members what they want? With a long phase-in/phase-out and by making some of these optional, no one would be adversely affected, but many members would be happy with the changes.

+1   Jacket or no jacket.......if we are going to have a white and grey combo......get a supplier.....and tell everyone  "this white shirt and these grey pants". 

We keep the polo combination...but change it to a polo and khaki pants.

[Garibaldi]

Kill the blazer combo, kill the G/W and start over. No CSU, either.

Polo plus khaki cargo pants or the current tactical pants for work, plain khaki for others.

Light blue shirt with epaulets with dark blue or black pants. Grey epaulet sleeves all around. CAP ribbons, badges and wings. Blue AF light jacket with grey epaulet sleeves.

Business suit for...business and semi formal applications. Dark blue or black with light blue shirt and tie. CAP tie tack. No more blazer combo nametag.

Blue BDU for those choosing to wear a BDU in the field.

Tuxedo for formal occasions.

Is it really this hard? Or am I being overly simplistic? 

[Eclipse]

You haven't factored in the USAF being perfectly happy to accept the effort of more then 1/2 the adult
membership, but does not want, in any way, there to be any confusion that those same members
are even remotely connected to them.

[PHall]

You haven't factored in the USAF being perfectly happy to accept the effort of more then 1/2 the adult
membership, but does not want, in any way, there to be any confusion that those same members
are even remotely connected to them.

Due to the stupidity of some of the adult members in the past. Remember, we've brought these restrictions upon ourselves by our own actions.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Due to the stupidity of some of the adult members in the past. Remember, we've brought these restrictions upon ourselves by our own actions.

Those stupid actions generally fall into two categories:

1. The true ones - which happened so long ago that I doubt anyone currently in the Air Force remembers them any more.
2. Ones that are, at best, apocryphal - Airman Snuffy whining to the Air Force Times that "Some CAP guy chewed me out for not saluting them!"

Neither of which are valid grounds, as I see it, for continuing the restrictions on us today, in 2014.

You haven't factored in the USAF being perfectly happy to accept the effort of more then 1/2 the adult
membership, but does not want, in any way, there to be any confusion that those same members
are even remotely connected to them.

Unfortunately true to a large degree.

Kill the blazer combo, kill the G/W and start over. No CSU, either.

Agreed.

Polo plus khaki cargo pants or the current tactical pants for work, plain khaki for others.

Respectful dissent.  BBDU's and blue flight/utility suit.

Light blue shirt with epaulets with dark blue or black pants. Grey epaulet sleeves all around. CAP ribbons, badges and wings. Blue AF light jacket with grey epaulet sleeves.

Qualified agreement.  I have suggested blue Van Heusen shirt (same cut as the white shirt) with airline-type grey trousers, in standardised shade of grey as our insignia.  Dark-blue MA-1 and/or L2B for warmer weather.  No AF items.

OPTIONAL dark-blue civilian airline sweater.

Blue-grey garrison cap.



RAAF garrison cap shown as SUGGESTED model.

Business suit for...business and semi formal applications. Dark blue or black with light blue shirt and tie. CAP tie tack. No more blazer combo nametag.

Partial agreement and respectful dissent.  Airline-type dark blue-grey uniform jacket (minus sleeve rings).  Retain black blazer nametag for grade recognition.  CAP ribbons/badges/miniature medals (depending on occasion) allowed.

Tuxedo for formal occasions.

Respectful dissent.  See above with miniature medals and perhaps dark blue bow tie.

Is it really this hard?

The only hard part is getting even general agreement from membership...akin to herding rattlesnakes.

White is actually the colour of the combination of all colours of the visible spectrum.

And black is the colour of my love's true hair...

I never recognised Noah Webster anyway.  Drove my teachers mad in high school.

Well, we're not an Air Force, so what Air Forces around the world wear is not really relevant to CAP. That said, while I like blue and wouldn't have a problem with a blue corporate uniform, those with decision authority have chosen grey and I'm fine with that too.

The grey is based, from what I know, on the uniforms worn by the IACE.  It is not really the grey itself that I object to...it's having a white shirt with it, which is monochrome, shows dirt very easily and is not slimming to our less svelte members.

The Royal Observer Corps had no flying role (unlike us), making them "not an air force," but had a similar relationship to the RAF as us...and they wore the same blue-grey as the RAF with modified insignia.

I have no problem with gray trousers, but I do with the fact that medium gray is too vague a description. I also hate that because different types and styles of pants can be worn with this uniform, that it barely resembles a uniform at all. I know this is done to give the membership flexibility on acquiring these and that cost is a factor too. But a real uniform is, after all, uniformed.

Stated well!

I also agree with many that a service coat/jacket is much needed to bring this uniform on par with the AF-style counterpart. And the hat... well, if it was up to me, none of the service uniforms would have hats, but that's irrelevant to the discussion. Many members would like a flight cap equivalent and I think it's only fair.

Also stated well!

Why not give the members what they want? With a long phase-in/phase-out and by making some of these optional, no one would be adversely affected, but many members would be happy with the changes.

Three in a row stated well! :clap:

However, I do not think the powers-that-be Higher Up are terribly interested as to what the members want viz. uniforms.

[PHall]

We have a National Uniform Committee. They are the ones who receive and evaluate suggestions involving uniforms and make recommendations to the National Commander.
If you feel this strongly about this then write up a proposal and send it up the chain.


Or you can sit here and complain.

Your call.

[Panache]

We have a National Uniform Committee. They are the ones who receive and evaluate suggestions involving uniforms and make recommendations to the National Commander.
If you feel this strongly about this then write up a proposal and send it up the chain.


Or you can sit here and complain.

Your call.

This would be a valid suggestion if the National Uniform Committee actually gave a flying darn as to what the general membership wanted.  Their actions have shown that they don't.

[arajca]

We have a National Uniform Committee. They are the ones who receive and evaluate suggestions involving uniforms and make recommendations to the National Commander.
If you feel this strongly about this then write up a proposal and send it up the chain.


Or you can sit here and complain.

Your call.

This would be a valid suggestion if the National Uniform Committee actually gave a flying darn as to what the general membership wanted.  Their actions have shown that they don't.

The problem isn't necessarily with the NUC. It's the process the a suggestion needs to go through to get to the NUC. Every level of command between the member and the NUC has to approve/forward the suggestion. Some will give it serious thought and make a thoughtful decision, some will figure it's not their idea so it doesn't deserve approval, and some will just ignore it. The problem is there is no way to track suggestions through the process.

[Panache]

The problem isn't necessarily with the NUC. It's the process the a suggestion needs to go through to get to the NUC.

Be that as it may be, the system is broken.  The end result is that a uniform suggestion from 1st Lt. Average from Podunk Composite Squadron is never going to be seen or acted upon, regardless of how good an idea it is.

[a2capt]

Just look at the ABU thing. Many cadet organizations use the current uniforms, with all the talk of ABUs and the effort put forth, the general assembly session from last July, and then NHQ puts out an edict that says "We're not going to do that."

It's almost pretty clear the 39-1 re-write was holding back text for it.

If they were to have done it, I'd see 10 years of use, and if they're on the ball in the beginning, they won't have this problem if the AF switches again.

[Shuman 14]

We have a National Uniform Committee. They are the ones who receive and evaluate suggestions involving uniforms and make recommendations to the National Commander.
If you feel this strongly about this then write up a proposal and send it up the chain.


Or you can sit here and complain.

Your call.

As a Patron member I really don't have a chain... so how do I send them a proposal?

[FlyTiger77]

As a Patron member I really don't have a chain... so how do I send them a proposal?

As patron members are not authorized a uniform, there was probably not much thought put into developing a uniform proposal process for patrons.

Perhaps you can find an active member to be your surrogate for submitting a proposal.