Reason for CAP mandating wear of the American flag patch on the BDU

[DNall]

If I could just clarify for a second. CAP-USAF doesn't approve or disapprove changes. They provide 1) oversight, and 2) advice based on their experience & knowledge. That's it. They are otherwise just th econduit thru which requests to the military pass. In this case to AU & then AETC/CCs for approval.

Also, I may be mistaken, but I don't think Af has been involved in witing or approving CAP regs since the CAP-USAF/CC quit being the executive director & became independent of CAP mgmt. I think I CAP can write pretty much what they want within some kind of reason.

[Nick]

If I could just clarify for a second. CAP-USAF doesn't approve or disapprove changes. They provide 1) oversight, and 2) advice based on their experience & knowledge. That's it. They are otherwise just th econduit thru which requests to the military pass. In this case to AU & then AETC/CCs for approval.

Wait a second ...

1.3.4. CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light conditions. The Air Force must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform.

So the AFI is lying?

[shorning]

The last 39-1 revision is several years old, and a new regulation has not been forthcoming.

And that was in the works for seven years!  I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a new one.

You see, what some are trying to do is share their experience with you.  Several individuals that have responded to you are quite knowledgeable about the overall process.  You just can't see the forest for the trees.

But hey, if you feel like Don Quixote...charge!

[alamrcn]

And that was in the works for seven years!  I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a new one.

I think the neew 39-1 will be on Post-Its (c) and every wing CC will be issued a roll of White Out (c) correction tape and a red Bic (TM) pen when Nat HQ makes a change that doesn't require replacing the whole 3x3" paper.

-Ace

[JC004]

And that was in the works for seven years!  I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a new one.

I think the neew 39-1 will be on Post-Its (c) and every wing CC will be issued a roll of White Out (c) correction tape and a red Bic (TM) pen when Nat HQ makes a change that doesn't require replacing the whole 3x3" paper.

-Ace

LOL.  Great theory.

[RiverAux]

Has one of the other board members handcuffed you to the computer and taped your eyes open?  Blink twice and I'll call the cops for you.

Wait...if ones eyes are taped open........

Exactly!

[RiverAux]

If I could just clarify for a second. CAP-USAF doesn't approve or disapprove changes. They provide 1) oversight, and 2) advice based on their experience & knowledge. That's it. They are otherwise just th econduit thru which requests to the military pass. In this case to AU & then AETC/CCs for approval.

Wait a second ...

1.3.4. CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light conditions. The Air Force must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform.

So the AFI is lying?

No, the AFI says the "Air Force" will make such approvals.  It doesn't specifically say that CAP-USAF is the part of the Air Force that makes such approvals. 

[mikeylikey]

Oh....reading these posts gives me the impression that I can no longer just pick and choose which sections of 39-1 and policy/interim change letters I wanted to follow!  Wow.....that clears everything up.  Guess I have to get rid of the pink buttons on my blues and start wearing boots instead of tennis shoes with my BDU's.  Crazy how hard it was too follow 39-1 in the first place.  There were sooo many words in the booklet.  I relied heavily on the principal of "I am going to do it my way or I will leave".  That gets most members in CAP promoted to COLONEL or beyond, so I thought I could use it too! 

Sorry but I digressed.

[Major Lord]

Oh....reading these posts gives me the impression that I can no longer just pick and choose which sections of 39-1 and policy/interim change letters I wanted to follow!  Wow.....that clears everything up.  Guess I have to get rid of the pink buttons on my blues and start wearing boots instead of tennis shoes with my BDU's.  Crazy how hard it was too follow 39-1 in the first place.  There were sooo many words in the booklet.  I relied heavily on the principal of "I am going to do it my way or I will leave".  That gets most members in CAP promoted to COLONEL or beyond, so I thought I could use it too! 

Sorry but I digressed.

Mikey, I don't think anyone here is publicly advocating breaking or ignoring the uniform, or any other regulations. I have merely asked for clarification on a seeming disarity, and have not received a clear answer. It is clear that members do not seem to have as encyclopaedic knowledge of CAP and AF regs as I thought ( McClarty, you are the exception!) To believe that any level of command is right because they "have always done it that way" is imprudent. Remember CAWG's extra-legal use of "Discretionary Grade" at encampments? Trust, but verify!

Capt. Lord

[Nick]

It is clear that members do not seem to have as encyclopaedic knowledge of CAP and AF regs as I thought ( McClarty, you are the exception!)

Eh, I've always been a reg geek, but it's very handy so I can throw up BS flags while doing unit SAVs.

[DNall]

1.3.4. CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light conditions. The Air Force must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform.

So the AFI is lying?

Not at all. It says the AF. That means the SAF & whomever he delegates authority to, which goes first to the executive officer, then A3/SHA, then AETC, AU, then finally CAP-USAF who at the end of that is task as an oversight, advisory, & liaison agency. The uniform approvals have never to my knowledge been passed below the MAJCOM level. Which I'd guess is mainly cause they deal w/ uniform issues/have a uniform board there & not at any point above or below in that particular chain (that I know of).

I believe CAP-USAF advises CAP leadership on what has a good chance of being approved or shot down, and then passes such requests on with their recommendations. I'm not saying the CAP-USAF/CC doesn't have a lot of influence over the process, but someone north of there is the approving authority.

[Nick]

I believe CAP-USAF advises CAP leadership on what has a good chance of being approved or shot down, and then passes such requests on with their recommendations. I'm not saying the CAP-USAF/CC doesn't have a lot of influence over the process, but someone north of there is the approving authority.

Okay, I could buy that.  I am very curious about who actually does approve CAP uniform changes -- in a perfect world, the AFUB would approve all uniforms -- but I seriously doubt the AFUB is sitting there reviewing and approving the CAP cadet uniform.

[lordmonar]

I would think that it would be USAF-CAP that does the approving.  At the most AU.  But SECAF?  The AFUB only meets once a year (if that much) so it's not them.

[flyguy06]

I think it was stupid for the Army to start wearing a bright US Flag on BDU's and I think its stupid for CAP> But doesn't really matter what I think. I do it cause it is what it is

[RiverAux]

But SECAF?

Many such authorities are granted by Congress to such high ranking officials, but which are delegated far down the chain of command for implementation. 

[lordmonar]

But SECAF?

Many such authorities are granted by Congress to such high ranking officials, but which are delegated far down the chain of command for implementation. 

Yes...that is what I am saying.  I thing our uniform approval just goes to USAF-CAP.  I can't see anyone above that level wasting their time on it.

[DNall]

It's AETC/CC, I couldn't quote you a source, but I know for a fact that's right. There may be some delegation of minor stuff (like repositioning cadet grade insignia or approving a new ribbon), but unless something significant has changed & I missed it, that is the right answer.

As I understand it... The way it is SUPPOSED to work is CAP changes go in a stack & are held for approval by the AETC uniform board (all MAJCOMs have one that set internal policy & recommend changes to the AFUB). I believe that board meets for a week once every other year, but I'm not positive on that. Then if an emergency change needs to be made it can go thru AU to the AETC/CC for approval. Obviously that's a busy person that shouldn't be bothered with stupid crap, and it's unfortuante that CAP doesn't work better within the system. I think we'd all be happier if uniforms stabilized for at least two years at a time.

[RiverAux]

Maybe they should just hold onto them for two years and tell CAP that they're just going to have to wait. 

[DNall]

Be nice! Dang that accomodating AF for wanting to help us out so much. I don't think it's actually gone thru their uniform board in a long time, and there may be some reason for that, but I sure would try to limit harrassing busy important AF cmdrs about stupid crap.

[RiverAux]

And thats actually the surprising part -- that they put up with CAP coming to them AT LEAST once or twice a year with uniform change proposals.