Reason for CAP mandating wear of the American flag patch on the BDU

[DNall]

That aren't an emergency.

See if they would have a set period once every two or three years to consider changes (I don't care if they actually use the AETC board or not), and you can still get stuff approved betwee, but you have to demonstrate it's critical to be done NOW versus waiting. I'd be a lot happier with that process.

Anyway, like I said, I hadn't seen any of this in writing, but that's how I understand it from what I've seen ove rth eyears & how it was explained to me by some former CAP-USAF folks. Nick would be in a better position than me or probably anyone else to find out how it really works these days, but it isn't that big a deal to me.

[lordmonar]

Well...it's not like it takes up all that much of his time.  USAF-CAP does the staff summary sheet with their recommendations, AU hacks off on it and sends it up to AETC.  The longest part is actually sending it from Alabama to Texas.  And 99% of the time AETC is going to do what AU suggests.

[Eagle400]

But the question still remains: why has CAP mandated wear of the American flag patch on the BDU?

I've heard over at CS that the rumor is general Pineda was mistaken for a Guatemalan Air Force officer while he was in the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina.  He was so offended by this that he ordered the American flag patch be worn on the BDU so everyone knows that CAP is an American organization.

Can anyone verify this?  It certainly sounds plausible, but may not be the reason why CAP members are now required to wear an American flag patch on the BDU.

[RiverAux]

No need to invent stories for it.  Seems plausible to me that it was just a patriotic move.  Personally, I don't think its necessary, but its not a big deal. 

[Eagle400]

No need to invent stories for it.  Seems plausible to me that it was just a patriotic move.  Personally, I don't think its necessary, but its not a big deal. 

I have a gut feeling that there's some reason for the American flag patch other than just being the result of a patriotic decision.  I mean, the uniform is patriotic enough without the flag. 

I understand general Pineda gave a reason for the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" branch tapes.  Did he ever give a reason for the American flag on the BDU?

[DNall]

Well...it's not like it takes up all that much of his time. 

Certainly.

But you're a SNCO, let me give you a scenerio... What would your commander do if you continually sent trivial unneccessary distractions to his desk? You're standing there in service dress before this LtCol (or whatever) & what's he going to say to you? Where's that bar going to be on the definition of trivial & how much harder would that talk go if he were a 4-star?

Now granted, it goes up with I'm sure recommendations by CAP-USAF, gets legal review & staffed at AU, signed & up to AETC, more legal review & staff analysis, then Gen Looney looks at the bold print for 30secs before signing or making notes on things he needs more info on. Some poor Lt there got stuck with this cause he's low man, and now he's standing there knees knocking together hoping this Gen doesn't think he's a moron over this memo he wrote. I don't know, I'm just guessing about the process, but sounds about right to me. All I know is I'd waste as little of their time on things like this as I could. Uniforms do need to be addressed in CAP just like the AF from time to time, but we need to be smart about it, not just what we're doing & why, but the process too. Just be smart is all I'm saying.


Far as the flag, why do we wear Army outerwear with corp combinations? Why have our tapes stayed blue for 30 years after the AF changed them? Why gray slides instead of black, & why do they need "CAP" on them if they're gray & it says so on the nametag. If the nametag isn't good enough cause it's not readable, then why do we have all that extra crap on it? Why are our ribbons all screwed up? Why is there a badge for most spec tracks but not for others, and why badges for three dif tracks that could have fit under one career field badge like the AF does? Why a "V" on the disaster ribbon, and why is it on that ribbon rather than the national cmdr commendation or unit citation? Why do some ribbons (SaR, CN, etc) have clasps but similiar ones don't (disaster relief or lifesaving)? Why in the world are we taking so long to get on board with NIMS?

You'll kill yourself trying to figure all this out. Fact is someone on NB saw the Army doing something, thought it was patriotic but didn't think things thru, and bingo uniform change is made.

That Katrina thing is a joke by the way, and one that's been picked up in a couple places as true. The way I understand the joke to have gone is why he didn't spend more time in the disaster zone was so he wouldn't be confused as that. Don't believe too much RUM-INT all at once, you'll find yourself watching for martians with a shotgun that way.

[lordmonar]

But you're a SNCO, let me give you a scenerio... What would your commander do if you continually sent trivial unnecessary distractions to his desk? You're standing there in service dress before this LtCol (or whatever) & what's he going to say to you? Where's that bar going to be on the definition of trivial & how much harder would that talk go if he were a 4-star?

Well that the key of delegation.  You certainly can't say to your subordinate units...."I got to see everything dealing with CAP Uniforms"...and then complain "they are sending me all this trivial stuff."

The Lt with the staff summery sheet certainly is not worried about the 4-star....he does not even see the 4-star.  Some Lt Col takes it from the Lt, checks it for grammar and formating and then put's in in the 4-star's "sigh here" pile.  No one is knocked knee in fear because for them it is just a piece of paper.

[DNall]

Maybe, I've seen Lts in front of generals like that though, not that I care one way or another, just adding some color to the story while emphasizing the point that they got better things to do.

The key to staffing is keeping stupid crap off your bosses desk so they can deal with the important things. The problem in this case is CAP doesn't take direction well when it comes to delayed gratification.

[Eagle400]

I am going to find out why the American Flag patch is worn on the CAP BDU.  Right now, I am inclined to believe it's so general Pineda doesn't get mistaken for a Guatemalan Air Force general again.  That seems like the most logical reason to me.

Does anyone know why the American Flag patch is worn on the CAP BDU?  

[LtCol White]

YOu have 6 pages here you can read and find out

[Dragoon]

I am going to find out why the American Flag patch is worn on the CAP BDU. 

No you're not.  You're just going to keep picking the scab here in these forums until it bleeds some more.

Because that's what you do.

I'd suggest a girlfriend - that might be a better use of your free time.

Or better yet, perhaps JOIN CAP and actually help out!

Nahh...your way, I'm sure, is much more fun.

[ddelaney103]

It's I pity I can't find that webpage that explained how the reverse flag patch was a tool of Satan to start the "preversion" of our institutions by twisting our symbols.  I guess the whole "OMG the Army is wearing reverse patches thing has been buried under more recent piles of wingnuttery.

Anyhow, that's the reason for the flag patch, Charlie Brown.

[Eagle400]

YOu have 6 pages here you can read and find out

I don't recall ever finding the answer, sir. 

[ddelaney103]

YOu have 6 pages here you can read and find out

I don't recall ever finding the answer, sir. 

That's because TP's unit of l33t haX0r5 has removed the truth, you know...

Jeez, kid - just put another layer of aluminum foil under the boonie and just drive on, for crying out loud.

[LtCol White]

Aside from NHQ requiring it, all other explanations are supposition as to why. Patriotic? Show of support? All are possible. The BEST place to get your answer would be to email Susie Parker at NHQ and ask her if you want the "Real" answer.

[Major Carrales]

YOu have 6 pages here you can read and find out

I don't recall ever finding the answer, sir. 

Oy Gevalt!!!  You are SPAMMING the FORUM with this moot point!!!

[mikeylikey]

I remember a similar debate in the Army before the flag patch was required.  Some people would take up the point that the uniform itself is like a flag.......others noted the "U S" in the branch tape........while others said that the SECARMY said to do it so we did it.  I agreed with the last reason.  We all may not agree as to why things are done, but we do as we are told on these issues.

If something is going to fail, let it fail on its OWN.  You can later say you supported it but it just was not meant to be.  Do everything you can to make it work, until there is nothing left to do! 

^ That is something I fully support.  I will not sabotage, nor will I refuse to accept what I legally have to accept.  If it works....great, if not at least I was a good boy and tried".  People may say "he never liked the idea, but he at least supported it". 


OK............Please whoever.......stop bringing up these old posts!  Geez!  When there are already 6 pages......and there has not been a post in 3 months, lets consider that "old news".......unless something causical brings it up again!

[Lancer]

Oy Gevalt!!!  You are SPAMMING the FORUM with this moot point!!!

I didn't know Carrales was a Jewish Surname...

Shlemiel... 

[Major Carrales]

Oy Gevalt!!!  You are SPAMMING the FORUM with this moot point!!!

I didn't know Carrales was a Jewish Surname...

Shlemiel... 

The frustration of this SPAMMING and the stupidity of this recurring topic had exhaused all words in English, Spanish and Italian...it fit the best.

Consider it a mitzvah to keep this Kvetch to a minimum.

By the way I am as Roman Catholic as they come, I just have lots (three actually) of Jewish friends who regularly use words like that.  You know, to them I'm just one of the goys...er, I mean guys!

PAX VOBISCUM!!!

[JohnKachenmeister]

The definitive reason we wear the reversed US flag patch on the BDU:

The General told us to.

End of story.