Crewmember wings alternative

[Eclipse]

AP has only been a "thing" for about 10 minutes.

Also, without MS' there is no searching out the left side of the plane, which kind of limits your mission effectiveness.

Repeating now, Mission Scanner is not a "pre-requisite" for anything, any more then GTM is a "pre-requisite" for GTL.
MS' are important and should be recognized as such.

The pressure to move "up" to MO is one of the reasons we have plenty of people who don't belong in the right
seat wearing wings.  In fact that constant "up" pressure is an issue in a lot of quals.

Some people are good at specific things, and there's no reason they should not be able to remain there.

[Devil Doc]

I am an AP and MS, working on the MO. I am not really Comfortable doing the MO Job, If i had to Sure, But i like being an MS and Love being an AP. I can see why there are seperate wings, Does anyone have a link to the new "Design"

[Devil Doc]

LOL, seen new Design, Reminds me of this Design:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-NavyAircrew.jpg

I wanted this When I was in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CombatAircrew.png


I like the CAC badge.

[THRAWN]

Doc, I said the same thing. If we're going to creatively procure insignia from the naval services, they should be the "cool" ones...

LOL, seen new Design, Reminds me of this Design:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-NavyAircrew.jpg

I wanted this When I was in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CombatAircrew.png


I like the CAC badge.

[THRAWN]

Exactly. I knew a MO who was all thumbs in the right seat. As a MS she could find a dime at 1000 feet. She never wanted to be an MO, but fell victim to the "up or out" mentality.

AP has only been a "thing" for about 10 minutes.

Also, without MS' there is no searching out the left side of the plane, which kind of limits your mission effectiveness.

Repeating now, Mission Scanner is not a "pre-requisite" for anything, any more then GTM is a "pre-requisite" for GTL.
MS' are important and should be recognized as such.

The pressure to move "up" to MO is one of the reasons we have plenty of people who don't belong in the right
seat wearing wings.  In fact that constant "up" pressure is an issue in a lot of quals.

Some people are good at specific things, and there's no reason they should not be able to remain there.

[GroundHawg]

We could go old school.

Wasn't something like this for stewardesses back in the day?

[Storm Chaser]

I'm not belittling the work of a Mission Scanner, as I am one as well and know what it entails. But the truth is that MS training is not that difficult and can be completed in a weekend or two. Since CAP aviation badges are mandatory and take precedence over all other badges, that means that an Incident Commander badge, which requires a lot more training, experience and effort to earn, would rank below this new aircrew badge. If an Incident Commander comes up through the ground track, i.e. as a Ground Branch Director, he/she cannot choose to wear the IC and Master GT badges simultaneously, as this aircrew badge would take precedence. Even the Air Force, which we're trying to imitate with this new manual, gives equal standing to aeronautical, space and cyberspace badges. In fact, a cyberspace badge ranks higher than a non-rated aircrew badge. That's really my main problem with this new aircrew badge; it's too easy to earn, yet it would rank higher than all other CAP "occupational" (not really) badges.

[Eclipse]

I'm not belittling the work of a Mission Scanner, as I am one as well and know what it entails. But the truth is that MS training is not that difficult and can be completed in a weekend or two.

The same can be said of just about every other CAP badge except for IC.

And just because a badge is "worn below" doesn't mean it "ranks below".

You're reading way too much into it.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm not belittling the work of a Mission Scanner, as I am one as well and know what it entails. But the truth is that MS training is not that difficult and can be completed in a weekend or two.

The same can be said of just about every other CAP badge except for IC.

And just because a badge is "worn below" doesn't mean it "ranks below".

You're reading way too much into it.

I respectfully disagree on all three.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I still say add some coloured enamelling and make Scanner wings a half-wing.

I know some don't like it but there is precedent, both among CAP and our allies.



This was listed on Evilbay as a "CAP Observer Half-Wing"


US 1919 Observer Half-Wing


RAAF Flight Engineer Half-Wing

[LSThiker]

I'm not belittling the work of a Mission Scanner, as I am one as well and know what it entails. But the truth is that MS training is not that difficult and can be completed in a weekend or two.

The same can be said of just about every other CAP badge except for IC.

And just because a badge is "worn below" doesn't mean it "ranks below".

You're reading way too much into it.

I respectfully disagree on all three.

The location of a badge does not equal it's worth.  It is the same for the military and it is the same for CAP.  The location simply refers to the type of badge it is.  Now if the reg stated the GTM takes precedence over the EMT badge, that does.  However, saying an aviation badge is more important than a non-aviation badge is not true. 

[Mustang]

There is no need to design and produce a new set of badges for members of CAP aircrews. Current designs would suffice for the purpose of designating individuals as aircrew with no additional cost to the member or the organization. It is my proposal that the current Observer style aviation badge be redesignated "CAP Aircrew Badge".

Sounds great, except it's got a huge "O" on it.  Changing to a "C" makes even more sense if all non-pilot aircrew will wear it.  Or to something not requiring a letter to differentiate. 

[THRAWN]

Who says it's an O? It's a circle. Make is symbolic of the 360 degree view that aircrews have...

There is no need to design and produce a new set of badges for members of CAP aircrews. Current designs would suffice for the purpose of designating individuals as aircrew with no additional cost to the member or the organization. It is my proposal that the current Observer style aviation badge be redesignated "CAP Aircrew Badge".

Sounds great, except it's got a huge "O" on it.  Changing to a "C" makes even more sense if all non-pilot aircrew will wear it.  Or to something not requiring a letter to differentiate.

[BillB]

During the 1950's-70's CAP had another half wing. It was more or less like the 1940's Observer wing, but in solid silver and only made in full size. Other than a few Historians, I doubt anyone would know what this wing was awarded for.  Hint: it was only issued to cadets.  I have one somewhere (I didn't earn it) but can't find it to shoot a photo.

[GroundHawg]

During the 1950's-70's CAP had another half wing. It was more or less like the 1940's Observer wing, but in solid silver and only made in full size. Other than a few Historians, I doubt anyone would know what this wing was awarded for.  Hint: it was only issued to cadets.  I have one somewhere (I didn't earn it) but can't find it to shoot a photo.

So this lets me know that no one reads my posts....

The Stewardess half-wing? You had to take some kind of stewardess orientation program to earn it. There was one floating around my old squadron supply room wiwac back in the early 90s.

[BillB]

GroundHawg is correct. There were three Stewardess Schools for Female cadets. Eastern Airlines, Delta Airlines and one on the west cost somewhere. On graduation of the two week school the cadets were awarded the Stewardess Wings. For some reason there were never produced in the small size for the blouse, only the large size which normally would be worn on thne service coat. Several years ago National told me that 275 female cadets had completed the Stewardess Schools before the program was dropped due to costs.

[THRAWN]

I'll take a stab as to why they were only produced for the "dress" uniform: unlike today, back in the classic era of flight, people dressed to go flying. Men wore ties, women hats, and everybody smoked. Flight crews looked razor sharp. Clean cut, formally dressed....These days, flying commercially is more akin to cross country travel on the big gray dog. The "laid back" nature of dress is reflected by the crews, and typified by the shorts and polos of a "directional" air carrier.

GroundHawg is correct. There were three Stewardess Schools for Female cadets. Eastern Airlines, Delta Airlines and one on the west cost somewhere. On graduation of the two week school the cadets were awarded the Stewardess Wings. For some reason there were never produced in the small size for the blouse, only the large size which normally would be worn on thne service coat. Several years ago National told me that 275 female cadets had completed the Stewardess Schools before the program was dropped due to costs.

[Майор Хаткевич]

[THRAWN]

Worlds better than the Navy wings in the 39-1 draft...

[Papabird]

DANG!  Those look better than the current MP wings!  But, probably too close to the USAF Pilot Wings.