Crewmember wings alternative

[Storm Chaser]

It is not the AFs job to educate the masses it is our job.  As I have said before if we want folks to be aware it is up to us, but BMT and Tech School are not the places for it.  Sorry but until we are considered part of the total force initiative then the AF is not going to educate the masses beyond what they do currently.

And why is it not the Air Force's job?  We wear a modified version of their uniform, we receive a good chunk of funding from them, we are part of the operations of 1st Air Force (ask Colonel Lee), and they used to educate their members about us.

Because, simply put, the job of the Air Force is to fly, fight and win... in air, space and cyberspace.

[abdsp51]

And why is it not the Air Force's job?  We wear a modified version of their uniform, we receive a good chunk of funding from them, we are part of the operations of 1st Air Force (ask Colonel Lee), and they used to educate their members about us.


Short of banging on the door of a base Wing King's office, how is it our part to "educate the Air Force" about us?

Cite please on one and on two how is it not our job?  Bottom line the AF has bigger issues to deal with than educating the force on us.  If you want the AF to know about us, step up put together a brief and present it at your local installation. 

BLUF it is our job to educate the populace on us not MA blues.  It is our job to build and maintain relationships with people not Ma Blues.

This is similiar to your gripe about the uniforms.  You want things done but do not want to take the steps to do it.

[Eclipse]

Because, simply put, the job of the Air Force is to fly, fight and win... in air, space and cyberspace.

And CAP is supposed to be part of that total force, relieving stress points wherever it reasonably can.
We're another card in the deck, the "Joker" to head off others, and like a Joker in a deck, not used often,
and with specific uses, but when needed, very handy, sometimes a game changer.

[Mustang]

FECA/FTCA doesn't dictate our place as a USAF auxiliary, except in the minds of a lawyer somewhere.
If it did, we could only wear USAF-style uniforms during AFAMs.

Auxiliary status dictates when we have FECA/FTCA coverage. Which has nothing to do with which uniforms we wear when.

Yes Bob, you're right, the law is wrong.

Thank you, however we're not talking about a nuance of liability insurance, are we?

We're talking about the mechanism by which we acquire FECA/FTCA coverage. That mechanism is when we are wearing our "auxiliary" hat--which we only wear when conducting AFAMs. Let me restate that for clarity: we have federal Title 10 status ONLY when conducting AF-assigned missions. The rest of the time, we're the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross.

(Do you pull this crap with CAP regs too?)

Interpret them properly?  Yes.

I beg to differ. You're ignoring what is actually stated and inserting your own misconceptions.

We may always be "the" USAF Auxiliary, but according to that section of federal law, we enjoy auxiliary status ONLY when performing missions for federal agencies.

"Enjoy auxiliary status?"  What does that mean in any way relevent to the average member.

As a practical matter, it means that you aren't gonna get sued personally if you lose control of a corporate van and drive it into someone's living room during a mission. Do that during a squadron field trip though, and you're hosed.

Please provide a list of activities and duties the average member participates in that aren't, in some way, used "by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government".
For starters, last I checked, CAP-USAF is a "department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government".

Squadron meetings. Wing staff meetings. Conferences. All flight ops released under a C flight code.  Color guards marching in parades. Pretty much anytime we aren't under operational control of First Air Force. 

[KarlIceman]

Do any of you more seasoned members out there know how one may read any comments submitted about the draft version of the 39-1?    It would be interesting to see if any changes have been made to it.

[Panache]

[sardak]

Chapter 909 - Civil Air Patrol, Title 10 USC was completely rewritten in 2000 and implemented under PL 106-398 (Defense Authorization Act for FY01). Per the Committee On Armed Services Report, 
SECTION 906--ORGANIZATION AND MANAGEMENT OF CIVIL AIR PATROL "This section would revise section 9441 of title 10, United States Code to define more clearly the relationship between the United States Air Force and the Civil Air Patrol (CAP)."

The rewrite added sections 9442 through 9448 (9447 created the BoG). Among the added sections:
§ 9443. Activities performed as federally chartered nonprofit corporation
blah, blah, blah

§ 9444. Activities performed as auxiliary of the Air Force
blah, blah, blah

(11) support the Civil Air Patrol cadet program by furnishing—
(A) articles of the Air Force uniform to cadets without cost; and
(B) any other support that the Secretary of the Air Force determines is consistent with Air Force missions and objectives; and

(12) provide support, including appropriated funds, for the Civil Air Patrol aerospace education program to the extent that the Secretary of the Air Force determines appropriate for furthering the fulfillment of Air Force missions and objectives.

To further define the "missions" as an auxiliary, the Statement of Work (SOW) between CAP and USAF was signed in 2001.  From the SOW:
2.3. CAP Missions
2.3.1. General. CAP, as an Air Force Auxiliary, shall maintain a capability to assist the Air Force in performing its roles, missions, and operations in a timely manner and to assist Federal, state, and local agencies or activities. This section describes missions CAP currently performs as an Air Force Auxiliary. The Secretary of the Air Force may use the services of CAP to assist the Air Force in performing roles, missions, and operations and also expects CAP to support Air Force missions.

Contained within this section are:
2.3.2 Emergency Services
2.3.3 CAP Cadet Program
2.3.4 CAP Aerospace Education Program

Reading all of the sections of Chapter 909 of Title 10 and the SOW, it becomes clear that the missions that CAP performs as an auxiliary to the USAF include more than just ES "Air Force [Assigned] Missions."

Mike

[Mustang]

Here are a couple publications that will clarify the finer points of our "auxiliary" status. These provide the "official" interpretation of the applicable federal statutes (and thus supercede Bobbo's "expert" interpretations):

Air Force Policy Directive 10-27
Air Force Instruction 10-2701 (Chapters 1 and 2 in particular)

I will cherry-pick a few important statements from each:

2. CAP Mission Status. CAP may conduct its activities as either an auxiliary of the Air Force or in its corporate status:

2.1. Air Force Auxiliary. CAP is an auxiliary of the Air Force when it assists the Air Force or any Federal agency in fulfilling its non-combat programs and missions. CAP support may include, but is not limited to, Air Force-assigned missions in support of homeland security operations, consequence management, support to civilian law enforcement, and other civil support. CAP may only support an agency or department of the Federal government in its capacity as the Air Force Auxiliary. Certain CAP programs, such as cadet orientation flights, may be approved and assigned as Air Force missions when these support Air Force non-combat programs and missions.

The Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is a Federally chartered non-profit corporation that may be utilized as a civilian volunteer auxiliary of the Air Force. The Secretary of the Air Force (SECAF) can employ the services of CAP in lieu of or to supplement Air Force resources to fulfill the non-combat programs and missions of the Air Force. Such services may include Air Force-assigned missions (AFAMs) in support of homeland security operations, consequence management, support to civilian law enforcement, and other civil support. Certain CAP cadet and aerospace educational programs may also be approved and assigned as Air Force non-combat missions. When performing Air Force-assigned programs and missions, CAP assets function as an auxiliary of the Air Force.

1.1. Capabilities. CAP conducts three primary programs: emergency services and civil support, aerospace education, and a cadet program. CAP may conduct emergency service and civil support activities as a corporation or when approved and assigned by the SECAF (or the designee), as an auxiliary of the Air Force. As a general rule, Aerospace Education and Cadet Program activities are not AFAMs.

[...]

1.2. CAP Status as an Auxiliary of the Air Force. Title 10, USC § 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force. CAP is deemed to be an instrumentality of the United States while carrying out missions assigned by the Secretary.

(Bolded emphasis mine)

So, to summarize:

   
• CAP may be utilized as "an auxiliary of the Air Force".
• CAP serves as "an auxiliary of the Air Force" only when performing Air Force Assigned Missions (AFAMs).  It operates in its capacity as a federally chartered corporation at all other times.
• AE and CP are not generally included within the definition of AFAMs, but certain aspects may; Cadet Orientation Flights, for example, are AFAMs.
• Anytime CAP members are performing an AFAM, they carry "federal instrumentality" status.
• Anytime CAP members are performing a corporate mission that is not an AFAM, they carry neither "federal instrumentality" nor "Air Force auxiliary" status.

Therefore.....

...while it is true that CAP is "the official civilian auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force",  it only serves in this auxiliary capacity under very specific circumstances. 

[Eclipse]

Here are a couple publications that will clarify the finer points of our "auxiliary" status. These provide the "official" interpretation of the applicable federal statutes

No, they presumably provide the text of the regulations.  The ino limit scope to make your argument.

Again, you've decided ES mission status is the only delimiter of being an auxiliary of the USAF.  It isn't, except when discussing a small portion of being an auxiliary, liability and insurance during one of CAP's many missions and activities.  As CYA, the regs say the USAF will only cover CAP when it assigns or approves an activity, they don't say
"you aren't are auxiliary all the other time".  For whatever reason you've decided being  specific instrumentality of the feds, is the only way to be an auxiliary.  It isn't.

A car is a car, even when it doesn't have insurance.

CAP is an auxiliary of the USAF even when it isn't covered by FECA/FTCA.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Because, simply put, the job of the Air Force is to fly, fight and win... in air, space and cyberspace.

And CAP is supposed to be part of that total force, relieving stress points wherever it reasonably can.
We're another card in the deck, the "Joker" to head off others, and like a Joker in a deck, not used often,
and with specific uses, but when needed, very handy, sometimes a game changer.

Thank you.  You make the point better than I could have.  WIWANG, CAP was looked at differently than we seem to be now; but in many ways there has been a moving-apart from the Air Force, and I don't believe it was the Air Force that made most of the moves away.

Cite please on one and on two how is it not our job?  Bottom line the AF has bigger issues to deal with than educating the force on us.  If you want the AF to know about us, step up put together a brief and present it at your local installation. 

First of all, just checking Mapquest, my closest active AFB is 280.90 miles.  The next "closest" is 611.28 miles.

They USED to educate their members about us.  I know that BMT has changed a lot since my day, but it would not take one bit away from BMT to use yet another marathon underwear-folding session to do so, or at the very least at an Airman's first duty station, especially if there is a CAP unit on that base.

I am not sure if they still do this, but at night in the dorm dayroom the MTI used to hold briefings.  They ranged from topics as diverse as how P.O.'d he was with us and he was going to kick all of us into next week and then recycle us all to Zero Week if we didn't shape up, to watching your mates for signs of suicidal behaviour, to basically him talking about How Great He Art and how the AF could not run without him (yawn), to just plain bull sessions (mostly him telling jokes).  It would be quite painless to maybe have a PowerPoint (in my day it would have been an overhead transparency) saying "this is who these people are, and this is how they fit with us."

BLUF it is our job to educate the populace on us not MA blues.  It is our job to build and maintain relationships with people not Ma Blues.

The populace in general and the membership of the military are not the same thing.

This is similiar to your gripe about the uniforms.  You want things done but do not want to take the steps to do it.

What can be done in either case by a Captain who rarely sees anyone above squadron level?  Have you "taken steps" to correct things you find incorrect about the organisation?

Again, you've decided ES mission status is the only delimiter of being an auxiliary of the USAF.

Far, far, far, far too much of our membership tends to believe that way, especially in senior squadrons.

[lordmonar]

I'm with Cyborg here.

In my BMTS we learned all about the other MAJCOMS and a bunch of other minutia that we did not need.    It would not detract from anything they are doing to give us 10 whole minutes to get us on the General Population's radar.

After BMTS....give us a half page in the Promotion Study Guide.

It's not like I'm asking for a yearly CBT or anything.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm with Cyborg here.

In my BMTS we learned all about the other MAJCOMS and a bunch of other minutia that we did not need.    It would not detract from anything they are doing to give us 10 whole minutes to get us on the General Population's radar.

After BMTS....give us a half page in the Promotion Study Guide.

It's not like I'm asking for a yearly CBT or anything.

Thank you.

I would add that not all of us are PAO's, or even equipped to be such (I hold those who are in high regard for their abilities, whether inborn or acquired).  I am not unskilled with words in written correspondence but fall all over myself communicating face-to-face, which is why I tend to be somewhat monosyllabic in person.

[Mustang]

Again, you've decided ES mission status is the only delimiter of being an auxiliary of the USAF.  It isn't, except when discussing a small portion of being an auxiliary, liability and insurance during one of CAP's many missions and activities.  As CYA, the regs say the USAF will only cover CAP when it assigns or approves an activity, they don't say "you aren't are auxiliary all the other time".  For whatever reason you've decided being  specific instrumentality of the feds, is the only way to be an auxiliary.  It isn't.

A car is a car, even when it doesn't have insurance.

CAP is an auxiliary of the USAF even when it isn't covered by FECA/FTCA.

I give up, you're apparently incapable of understanding the nuances here.  I've shown you both federal law and the AFIs which implement it that say otherwise. That federal law and those AFIs are pretty clear on the subject: CAP operates in either corporate mode or AF auxiliary mode, but not both at the same time, and we're in AF auxiliary mode ONLY when engaged in AFAMs, period.  We are NOT "always federal, all the time".

[Eclipse]

I give up, you're apparently incapable of understanding the nuances here.  I've shown you both federal law and the AFIs which implement it that say otherwise. That federal law and those AFIs are pretty clear on the subject: CAP operates in either corporate mode or AF auxiliary mode, but not both at the same time, and we're in AF auxiliary mode ONLY when engaged in AFAMs, period.  We are NOT "always federal, all the time".

No one said we were, but we actually are, unless you're going to make the case that the US Congress is not a federal organization.

You're ignoring the points made and then accuse me of missing nuance.

[Mustang]

I give up, you're apparently incapable of understanding the nuances here.  I've shown you both federal law and the AFIs which implement it that say otherwise. That federal law and those AFIs are pretty clear on the subject: CAP operates in either corporate mode or AF auxiliary mode, but not both at the same time, and we're in AF auxiliary mode ONLY when engaged in AFAMs, period.  We are NOT "always federal, all the time".

No one said we were, but we actually are, unless you're going to make the case that the US Congress is not a federal organization.

You're ignoring the points made and then accuse me of missing nuance.

Come again?

In the most black-and-white terms (and I say this as a former ANG airman), we are more of a direct part of the Air Force than the Air National Guard.  Under Title 32 and Title 10 USC, the ANG is only directly a part of the Air Force when placed under Federal control by the President.  Until then, they are controlled by their state Governors and Adjutant General.  In fact, ANG aircraft used to only carry "U.S. AIR FORCE" titling when this happened; otherwise they carried their state name.

We are "all federal, all the time," and AUX ON/OFF be hanged.

To correct CyBorg's post, we are only directly a part of the Air Force when performing AFAMs under Title 10, same as the National Guard. The rest of the time, we're a Title 36 nonprofit.

And if you think we're part of Congress too, you're up in the night, dude.

[Eclipse]

Who charters us?

Also...

in·stru·men·tal·i·ty 3. A subsidiary branch, as of a government, by means of which functions or policies are carried out.

aux·il·ia·ry 1. An individual or group that assists or functions in a supporting capacity

These are not mutually exclusive via either definition or law.

CAP is always the USAF Auxiliary, and sometimes an instrumentality.    The difference is inconsequential except in
regards to who covers costs and liability.

[Mustang]

Who charters us?

Irrelevant. They created us, and we still answer to them, but we are not part of them.

[Eclipse]

Created and funded by the US Congress, an auxiliary of the USAF.

100% Federal, 24x7.

[Mustang]

Are you repeating that simply to convince yourself that it's true?  I'm here to tell you it isn't and you have only your opinion to back up your belief that it is.  Go read the [darn] AF regs I provided links to.

For a lieutenant colonel, your lack of corporate knowledge is embarrassing.

[Eclipse]

I'm here to tell you it isn't...

Oh, sorry, didn't realize.