Most Basic CAP Uniform for New Member

[Panache]

Ya'll will never win the polo vs. 39-1 vs. basic minimum uniform bit.

I'm not saying it's within regs.  I'm saying that it's reality.

[ColonelJack]

A member (or a unit) that disregards 39-1 requirements in the name of "cost, ease of maintenance, and lack of concern with military customs" is most likely a unit that will disregard other regulations as well.

I believe the Air Force expects better from us. 

One more reason why they have issues with their Auxiliary, I suppose...

Jack

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I may loathe the G/W kit for reasons stated elsewhere, and would like to see changes to it also stated elsewhere.

However, due to medication side effects I am currently (just) outside the limits for the AF uniform.  Probably very few others would notice and/or call me on it, but I know that I'm out of regs to wear it...so I don't.

Hence, I have a set of G/W in both short- and long-sleeved variants.  The short-sleeved I wear with just my wings, nameplate and rank.  The long-sleeved I wear with the preceding plus CAP ribbons and my two speciality badges (basic Safety, master Administration).  I try to make sure they're clean and pressed.

I do not own, nor do I ever plan to own, a polo shirt.

For non-"office ops" occasions I wear my BBDU's or blue utility/flight suit.

I think the regs really stink WRT uniforms in a lot of ways, but until/if they are changed, I view myself as bound to obey them, no matter how ugly I may think the "corporate" uniforms are.

[MacGruff]

Our Squadron uses the polo shirt with Grey slacks as the Uniform of the Day for Senior Members for most meetings (Blue BDU's are sometimes seen that night as well). There is one meeting a month labeled "Blues" night which is when those who can, wear the Air Force style blue uniforms, and those how cannot, wear the Grey/white combo with the various ribbons and the like. This more "formal" occasion is the more ceremonial one when promotions are handed out, so it seems appropriate to be "more dressed up".

[Fubar]

Observing my wing, we already have a de facto uniform - the polo with grey pants. I suspect for many of the same reasons you quote for the aviator - cost, ease of maintenance, and the lack of concern with military customs.

I believe terms you were actually looking for are "laziness" and "apathy".

I would suggest being careful about associating the term "laziness" with such hard working CAP members (some I suspect work as hard as you do), but your word of apathy towards uniforms is likely spot on. These folks are very mission-driven and really enjoy what they do. If the polo option went away, I think they'd get whatever uniforms they had to in order to continue participating, but clearly the culture of our organization is changing from within in regards to the importance of uniforms.

I get that CAPM 39-1 prescribes a minimum uniform that members must own, however I think it's inappropriate to waste a volunteer's money. If the member has no desire to wear the aviator/blues uniforms and they participate at a squadron that has no issues with members wearing the polo to meetings, then there's your de facto minimum uniform.

No, they join an organization which has no such requirement.

The reality is there is no such requirement in many places. I'm sure you can think of a number of laws that are on the books but not enforced. We're seeing the same thing within CAP with commanders who decide, for whatever reason, against setting a UOD that doesn't include polo shirts. If there is never a need to wear anything other than a polo, there is no reason to waste a volunteer's money by forcing them to buy a uniform shirt that will solely live in the bottom of their closet and never see the light of day.

The fact that members believe a uniform should "align with their interests" sums up this issue nicely.

I'd say most aspects of a volunteer organization need to match up with a person's interests in order for them to commit their time and money to it.

[Eclipse]

"Mission driven" is code for "I only do what I feel like doing".

Beyond that, thank you for making my point.

[RiverAux]

It is quite obvious to me why the "minimum" uniform is not universally-owned by CAP members -- it is not the normal uniform of the day at most CAP events.  In the CG Aux, the tropical blue long uniform (basically identical to the CAP dark blue slacks/light blue shirt AF-style) is worn to basically every meeting.  Because it is worn almost all the time, members buy it and I don't know any Aux member that doesn't own one. 

In CAP the "minimum" uniform is not the "standard" uniform.  Note how the term "blues night" has been used in this thread.  In practice it is considered a uniform for special occasions and new members quickly realize that they don't really need it. 

Now, CG Aux does have field uniforms worn for field activities, including a polo-shirt option.  And, it isn't terribly unusual in my unit for the ODU uniform to be worn in the winter because it is warmer (there is a winter-version of the tropical blue long, but it is rarely seen).  But, even in the winter, the tropical blue long is usually worn by most. 

So, CAP needs to either recognize reality and make the golf shirt the minimum basic uniform or make the light blue shirt and gray/whites the standard wear for all CAP meetings unless otherwise directed.  Folks, logic trumps regulations and right now any CAP member knows that they don't really need the current minimum uniform and that no one really expects them to have it.

[Eclipse]

^

Command.

Failing.

Again.

[PHall]

^

Command.

Failing.

Again.

So what are YOU doing to fix it?

[Eclipse]

I am not currently in a position to have any influence beyond personal example and whining about it discussing it here.

When I was a commander, I did plenty.

However until there is actual national prerogative to enforce the regulations, vs. fearing attrition as the apparent primary motivator,
islands of commanders doing things right, swimming in a sea of apathy, will continue to have little beyond local influence.

The constant rhetoric is "fixing CAP", yet the actual answer, which is to work the full program and enforce the rules, is simply ignored
for "NEW!" "EXCITING!" ideas which stress shiny over substance and ultimately defeat their own purpose.

An organization, especially a paramilitary auxiliary,  which cannot get the most baseline details like "what do you wear", right and consistent,
is going to be questionable for anything of actual consequence.

[LSThiker]

First, I would say we use the proper terminology for the uniforms.  I only say this because I have seen plenty of cadets get jumped on (both Cadetstuff and Captalk) for calling the Service Dress Uniform the class A uniform (which I agree it is not).  There is no polo uniform prescribed in CAPM 39-1.  The proper uniform is the Knit Shirt or Golf Shirt as both are found in CAPM39-1. 

Second, I think there are two different arguments going on.  The first argument is what is the minimum uniform as dictated by CAPM39-1 and the second argument is what is the practical uniform worn by members.

The first argument is simple since it is spelled out in CAPM39-1.  The only uniform which a commander can require a member to purchase is minimum basic service uniform or the CAP Distinctive basic service uniform (senior members only).:

Members will equip themselves with the basic uniform. The minimum basic uniforms for male and female cadets
and senior members, which will satisfy most occasions, are listed below.  Members may obtain and wear
the additional uniform items authorized in this publication on an optional basis.

snip

a. Minimum Basic Service Uniform. Male: Short-sleeve, light blue shirt; dark blue trousers; blue
belt/silver buckle, blue flight cap; black shoes, and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch,
collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight cap emblem. Female: Short-sleeve light
blue blouse; Dark blue skirt or slacks; flight cap; neutral nylon hose; black shoes; black handbag.
Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch, collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight
cap emblem.
b. CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform (senior members only). Male: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt;
gray trousers; black belt; black shoes and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.
Female: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt; gray slacks or skirt; plain black shoes. Insignia: CAP
nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.

The second argument is also allowed for in CAPM39-1.  A commander may prescribe the wear of a uniform in order to achieve uniform appearance.

The National Commander and other commanders may specify the wear of a particular uniform type
for the purpose of achieving a uniform appearance at squadron, group, wing, region, and national
functions. However, all commanders must be mindful of the objective of attaining a neatly
uniformed appearance at a minimum of personal expense to the individual member and will
consequently refrain from imposing unreasonable uniform requirements.

So at the very minimum, a member must own the either the Basic Service Uniform or the CAP Distinctive Service Uniform.  Anything beyond that is the member's choice.  What the squadron wears each night is a command choice.  So if all SMs wear the golf shirt, great.  If the commander allows for either BDUs/CAP Utility Uniform or Golf Shirt, great.  If a commander says BDUs and a member shows up in the CAP Distinctive Service Uniform, then not much the commander can do unless it presents a safety issue.  This is especially true for cadets unless the squadron can provide it free of charge:

A commander
may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary or if the
uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.

 

Although I will say that I did not know this until now, but the Knit Shirt is equal to the AF-style light blue shirt.  I guess I always assumed more of a CAP Utility Uniform or BDU.  But hey, learn something new everyday.

[abdsp51]

If a commander says BDUs and a member shows up in the CAP Distinctive Service Uniform, then not much the commander can do unless it presents a safety issue. 

Send the violator home. They can't follow the direction and policy set down by the CC or the Activity Director then they are not needed.

[LSThiker]

If a commander says BDUs and a member shows up in the CAP Distinctive Service Uniform, then not much the commander can do unless it presents a safety issue. 

Send the violator home. They can't follow the direction and policy set down by the CC or the Activity Director then they are not needed.

How is this person a violator?  CAPM39-1 specifically states that the only uniforms required to be own by members are the basic minimum uniform.  All other uniforms are optional.  Although commanders may prescribe a uniform for uniform appearance, but they must be mindful of optional expenses. 

If it is a cadet, then what?  They definitely are not in violation of directive, rather the commander's directive is in violation of CAPM39-1 unless that commander can provide the other uniforms free of charge to the cadet or if the cadet is willing to pay for it or if it presents a safety hazard (although not spelled out but common sense says this).  So at an ES school, sure.  But a squadron meeting, no.

A commander may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.

[RiverAux]

^

Command.

Failing.

Again.

No, it is not an instance of command failing again.  Just why should any member waste money buying a uniform that is rarely worn in most units and never worn in many? 

The truth is that the "minimum basic uniform" is not used as such anywhere in CAP.  In many units it is only the prescribed uniform once a month and at other it isn't worn at all. 

If someone wants to make an argument that because it is the official minimum basic uniform that it should be worn to all CAP events unless otherwise directed, they actually have a case.  A closer reading of 39-1 certainly implies that we should be wearing the service dress at every meeting, yet it is not done anywhere in CAP.  Should we be doing that?  Not sure I've heard anyone make that case.

And if we're not going to do that, the regs should be changed to reflect reality. 

[Fubar]

"Mission driven" is code for "I only do what I feel like doing".

Well, they're doing things like running squadrons and wings, holding AE and DDR events, executing REDCAP missions, and heck, recently a fun Christmas/Holiday/Year End party.

But I suppose they were only doing that stuff because they felt like it.

Commanders at all levels are expected to set the UOD for any meeting or activity. Most commanders seem content with setting a UOD of "any valid CAP uniform" and then expect members to wear those uniforms properly, regardless of which uniform they choose.

Unless the rules are changed forcing commanders to pick specific UOD requirements for meetings/activities, it is pointless to force members to purchase uniform items they will never wear.

[abdsp51]

If a commander says BDUs and a member shows up in the CAP Distinctive Service Uniform, then not much the commander can do unless it presents a safety issue. 

Send the violator home. They can't follow the direction and policy set down by the CC or the Activity Director then they are not needed.

How is this person a violator?  CAPM39-1 specifically states that the only uniforms required to be own by members are the basic minimum uniform.  All other uniforms are optional.  Although commanders may prescribe a uniform for uniform appearance, but they must be mindful of optional expenses. 

If it is a cadet, then what?  They definitely are not in violation of directive, rather the commander's directive is in violation of CAPM39-1 unless that commander can provide the other uniforms free of charge to the cadet or if the cadet is willing to pay for it or if it presents a safety hazard (although not spelled out but common sense says this).  So at an ES school, sure.  But a squadron meeting, no.

A commander may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.

Split hairs much?  The commander or activity director has the prerogative and obligation to set the UOD and has the prerogative to send someone not in compliance home.   Cadets are a different story and usually ask prior to attending something, and I will not penalize a cadet for something out of their control.  Adults on the other hand are where I have seen most of the issues.   I had planned an activity and set the UOD for it and you can best be sure I'd have sent someone home for not complying. 

[RiverAux]

For some sort of context, I did a poll last year about what uniforms most senior members wear to squadron meetings.  It wasn't split out so that we could separate BDU/BBDUs from service dress/gray&whites, but the fact that just over 50% reported that most seniors wear the golf shirt uniform indicates that the service dress is not the actual standard uniform in CAP. 

I suspect that if a poll was launched asking whether the service dress & gray/whites were the standard uniform for meetings that  very very few would say that it was worn every meeting. 

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16223.msg292770#msg292770

[Eclipse]

And if we're not going to do that, the regs should be changed to reflect reality.

Yes they should be, but until they are, then they need to be enforced.

And they way to do that is by having the meetings, formations, and other activities
which dictate those uniforms, and not looking the other way when people ignore you.

The regs are there are part of a whole program, but we've become so gun-shy about
upsetting members that "setting expectations" has some how become a negative.

[Eclipse]

just over 50% reported that most seniors wear the golf shirt uniform indicates that the service dress is not the actual standard uniform in CAP. 

Yes, because members don't read the regs, CCs don't read them, there's no culture of expectation,
and far too many units are being run on a shoe-string with people coming and going as they please.

Then we look around and can't figure out why we have reputation issues, 20%+ annual churn,
and lack of focus on what many of our missions even are, let alone actually executing them.

[Ned]

Split hairs much?  The commander or activity director has the prerogative and obligation to set the UOD and has the prerogative to send someone not in compliance home.   

Balderdash, sir.

Requiring a member to purchase an optional uniform is not a lawful order.  "Optional" means optional.

A member cannot be disciplined for violating an improper order. 

But far more importantly, sending otherwise productive members home for mere uniform violations is silly and counter-productive, and does not seem to comport with our Core Values of Respect and Volunteer Service.

Please take a moment and reflect that any commander who adopts "do as I say or go home!" as their primary leadership style  is overlooking most of the tools in their leadership tool box.

I encourage commanders to focus on the mission -- preparing for and performing emergency services, training our cadets, and educating our members and the public on aerospace matters. 

If a member's appearance directly impacts mission performance, immediate action is indicated.  Otherwise good commanders educate, counsel, and encourage members to fully comply with our rather complex uniform regulations.

Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer