Most Basic CAP Uniform for New Member

[RiverAux]

Actually, as indicated in 39-1, the MBU is the standard uniform for all CAP activities, for both cadets and senior members.

Yeah, if you REALLY want to work at it.  It needs to be EXPLICITLY stated as such.  The only place this comes close to being stated is in a definition of the service uniform in 1-3(c).  No one is looking for guidance on what the standard uniform is for meetings in a place like that.  I tried really hard earlier in this thread to find something better, but be my guest...

Cite and substantiate?  What regulation states this?

Uh, I said it was the defacto minimum uniform.  In other words, the unofficial minimum uniform. 

My eyesight and that of many members on this forum indicates that the majority of members wear polos to meetings.  Its not a large majority, but its there. 

[Eclipse]

So the only actually required uniform is the MBU, but you need more explicit indication that's
supposed to be the official uniform for most activities?

It's the only uniform a CC can actually require a member to have, cadet and senior, what more do you need?

This is another place where nothing more then actually enforcing the existing regulation is needed.

[JeffDG]

Uh, I said it was the defacto minimum uniform.  In other words, the unofficial minimum uniform. 

How many folks get the difference between de facto and de jure?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

When I first joined CAP (1993), the G/W kit was completely different - no epaulettes, no badges, just the blazer nameplate.  Even though I don't like today's G/W kit, I have to admit it's light-years ahead of the old one.  I used to really feel for the members who couldn't wear the AF uniform, because they had nothing on which to display their accomplishments.  It was also difficult to recognise rank until you were close enough to read the nameplate.

Perhaps it's just that CAP demographics have changed over the years since then, but at my first (best) unit, when I went to order uniforms from the CAP Bookstore (ahh...them was the daze), my unit deputy CC and I sat down and he told me the things I would need:

1. Air Force light blue, short-sleeved shirt
2. Air Force trousers
3. Airman flight cap; he said I could not wear an officer's cap until I was promoted 2nd Lieutenant; this was reinforced by the unit CC - and indeed I didn't.
4. CAP collar cutouts
5. Blue (at that time) nameplate
6. AF blue belt
7. Flight cap device

Some of the things the unit had on hand, others I had to order.

He told me that almost any black dress socks and "low-quarter" shoes would do, so I got those locally.  I was also able to get a "Tony Nelson" service coat on the cheap at the Army/Navy.

I never actually saw a polo shirt or the G/W kit until I went to my first Wing activity.  I never saw them worn in my unit and I was with them for six years (1993-1999).

The way the CC's specified UOD was very simple: warm weather, blue uniform; activity uniform and winter uniform; BDU's.  The G/W and golf shirt were never prohibited; they were just unheard-of in my unit.

Standards were enforced by all three of my unit CC's during that time (including the deputy CC I mentioned, who later became squadron CC).

We had one member who consistently wore his AF uniform dirty...to be honest, it looked like hell.  The CC (who had been active Air Force) had several counselling/warning sessions with him, but I guess it never got through.  Finally he was restricted to wearing the smurf suit by the CC.

I think a big part of it could have been that we were in a building with Reserve units from the Navy (including Sea Cadets, who were always, unfailingly sharp-looking and on the mark with their C&C's), Marines and ArNG...and since we were the only Air Force-associated unit there, we didn't want to look bad in front of the others.

I suppose the gist of what I'm trying to get at is from Day One the command staff sat down with me, told me what I would need and how it was expected to be worn (and I did see other members get sent home for violations).

I got gigged myself once for my hair touching the top of my ears (I had just not got my hair cut in time); the CC took me aside and just explained to me that the next time I showed up my hair was to be within regs.  I got a haircut the next day and it never happened again.

How many CC's or deputy CC's sit down with new people and show them the ye olde 39-1, point to the blue uniform and/or G/W equivalent and say "this is the minimum you are required by regulation to have, and everything else is optional?"

[Panache]

Obviously no one should be investing in a uniform until they are approved, which is fine, since until Level 1 is complete,
you can't do anything anyway.

Wear of the AF-style uniform is prohibited by CAPR 50-17 until they complete Level 1 anyway.

[BillB]

What about a member that has been out of CAP for 3-4 years, may have completed Level 3,4 or 5 but hasn't compoleted the new Level 1 affect his/her wearing a uniform? He/she obviously completed the old Level 1, but now has to take the new Level 1.

[RiverAux]

So the only actually required uniform is the MBU, but you need more explicit indication that's
supposed to be the official uniform for most activities?

It's the only uniform a CC can actually require a member to have, cadet and senior, what more do you need?

This is another place where nothing more then actually enforcing the existing regulation is needed.

Yes, it does need to be explicit because it isn't obvious that it is the preferred uniform and commanders are given total discretion to never require its wear.  Are you saying that a commander is breaking the regulations by not requiring its wear?   Until such time as that is the case, no one other than you is going to see this uniform as the default uniform for most CAP activities. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Some of us have been in that boat.

I have been in and out three times. And had to wait to meet the new requirements before wearing the uniform.

It is  like renewing ES quals. You have to meet the new regulations before you can say you are a qualified ground team leader...

And if I go out and away for 5 years, I am perfectly fine with waiting for a new Level I. At this time I am a Captain, attained Level III and waiting for my Level IV request to be approved...

Flyer

[Garibaldi]

What about a member that has been out of CAP for 3-4 years, may have completed Level 3,4 or 5 but hasn't compoleted the new Level 1 affect his/her wearing a uniform? He/she obviously completed the old Level 1, but now has to take the new Level 1.

They obviously completed Level 1 at some point. The new one would be more of a refresher or whatnot. In some  cases people who have attained Level 2+ and have come back from a break in service already know how to wear the AF style uniform if that was what they wore before. As long as it doesn't look like a sack I would allow the renewing member to wear it, sans grade until that was approved.

[Eclipse]

Are you saying that a commander is breaking the regulations by not requiring its wear?

I'm saying a commander is doing a disservice to both the member and CAP by ignoring a simple regulation and then not reinforcing it
by providing opportunities to use this required equipment.

Until such time as that is the case, no one other than you is going to see this uniform as the default uniform for most CAP activities.

"You can't, I won't, you can't make me..."
Just me?  That's not even true in this thread.

"Is there a required uniform for CAP?"

"Well, it says here we all have to own this..."

"Makes sense to me, next question..."

"Nah, I think I'll wait until the National CC calls me and explicitly explains this simple idea..."

[JeffDG]

Draft CAPM 39-1 is out on eServices.  Get it while it's hot!

[RiverAux]

Looks like draft 39-1 is doing what I asked and being more explicit about requiring wear of this uniform.  In describing the service uniform:

Service uniforms are the everyday uniform for CAP business. The appropriate combination depends on the commander's direction and the type of event, but these uniforms are usually worn for unit meetings, professional development events, conferences, etc.

Although, as expected, contradictory regulation is also in the draft -- they're going back to the language saying that you only have to wear the uniform at certain times, and "normal CAP duty" is no longer in there:

CAP members are required to wear a CAP uniform (either USAF- or Corporate-style) when working with cadets, when flying in a CAP aircraft (Corporate or member owned aircraft used in a CAP flight activity), or when conducting business under a CAP mission number (A, B, or C).

So, if a commander wants to require the service uniform at a meeting, I'm free to wear civilian clothes if I want.  It doesn't look like I could choose to wear another CAP uniform though without getting in trouble (since I wouldn't be wearing the mandated uniform)

[Shuman 14]

Hi, after reading thru this thread completely I'm gonna be the fly in the middle of the bowl of split pea soup and point out that this "problem" would not exist if CAP had ONE (1) corporate Service uniform, ONE (1) corporate Field uniform, and ONE corporate Flying uniform.

Pick a color, pick a pattern, and go with it. Uniformity... it's a wonderful thing in a "uniformed" organization.

BTW, if a cadet doesn't meet USAF height/weight standards... what uniform does he/she get to wear?

[LSThiker]

Hi, after reading thru this thread completely I'm gonna be the fly in the middle of the bowl of split pea soup and point out that this "problem" would not exist if CAP had ONE (1) corporate Service uniform, ONE (1) corporate Field uniform, and ONE corporate Flying uniform.

Pick a color, pick a pattern, and go with it. Uniformity... it's a wonderful thing in a "uniformed" organization.

BTW, if a cadet doesn't meet USAF height/weight standards... what uniform does he/she get to wear?

Cadets less than 18 years are not subject to height/weight standards.  Cadets above 18 years would wear the corporate uniform.

I do not think a lot of people would disagree if CAP moved to just a simple one style corporate uniform to clarify things.

[Shuman 14]

^ So the Air Force has no issue with 17 or younger cadet who cannot meet height/weight standards being in their uniform... but for 18-year-olds and any SM it's a huge problem.

Seems like a silly double standard to me. 

[PHall]

^ So the Air Force has no issue with 17 or younger cadet who cannot meet height/weight standards being in their uniform... but for 18-year-olds and any SM it's a huge problem.

Seems like a silly double standard to me. 

They don't want anybody who is old enough to be in the Air Force to reflect badly on them.

[LSThiker]

^ So the Air Force has no issue with 17 or younger cadet who cannot meet height/weight standards being in their uniform... but for 18-year-olds and any SM it's a huge problem.

Seems like a silly double standard to me. 

Does not matter.  Their uniform, their rules.  Since the USAF also has no problems with AFJROTC cadets that would not meet standards, why would they have problems with CAP cadets?

[Fubar]

Looks like draft 39-1 is doing what I asked and being more explicit about requiring wear of this uniform.  In describing the service uniform:

Service uniforms are the everyday uniform for CAP business. The appropriate combination depends on the commander's direction and the type of event, but these uniforms are usually worn for unit meetings, professional development events, conferences, etc.

I saw that as well and clearly the command intent is to see less of the golf (soon polo) shirt at meetings & classes. Unfortunately for those that continue to despise the polo option, the draft uses words like "usually worn" and still leaves UOD options to the local commander. I think we're going to continue to see the dark blue monster grow, especially when the squadron commanders seem to like wearing it.

Regardless, I think we need to recognize Eclipse's opinion that commanders need to at least occasionally require the MBU to force members out of their polos lines up with what the NUC is thinking.

[a2capt]

The cadet that couldn't pass weight standards otherwise may not be promoting regularly anyway, baring a medical exemption, as the deck is stacked against the PT standards being met, as the cadet ages, the requirements tighten up.

That kinda takes care of that all by itself.

By it's very design, the cadet program should produce cadets able to stay within the required envelope for uniform wear.

[arajca]

Looks like draft 39-1 is doing what I asked and being more explicit about requiring wear of this uniform.  In describing the service uniform:

Service uniforms are the everyday uniform for CAP business. The appropriate combination depends on the commander's direction and the type of event, but these uniforms are usually worn for unit meetings, professional development events, conferences, etc.

I saw that as well and clearly the command intent is to see less of the golf (soon polo) shirt at meetings & classes. Unfortunately for those that continue to despise the polo option, the draft uses words like "usually worn" and still leaves UOD options to the local commander. I think we're going to continue to see the dark blue monster grow, especially when the squadron commanders seem to like wearing it.

Regardless, I think we need to recognize Eclipse's opinion that commanders need to at least occasionally require the MBU to force members out of their polos lines up with what the NUC is thinking.

However, you'll notice the golf/polo shirt has been removed from the "Service Uniforms" section and is apparently no longer considered equivalent to the AF blues or aviator shirt uniforms. The polo has been relegated to the work uniforms equal to the bdu and field uniform.