Rank insignia on the service coat

[Eclipse]

what I've read on this forum and over at Military.com

Not exactly an authoritative, unbiased source for just about anything.

[Shuman 14]

what I've read on this forum and over at Military.com

Not exactly an authoritative, unbiased source for just about anything.

True, I did say "limited experience".

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it, but it seems, at least on the surface, that many here agree with that same premise.

[lordmonar]

3. How can you say CAP and the USAF are already close when better than 3/4 of the AF don't know CAP exists or has the complete wrong idea of who we are? I guess you can say CAP is close to the USAF if you're doing so as a matter of perspective versus comparison with other auxiliaries and their parent organizations.

How can I say that, ok how about this. Every group commander upon being appointed is deeply briefed on what the organization is and what we do and given a tour of the AFRCC.  And you are telling me that 250,000 people know nothing about us I will chalk it up to most generally don't care.   Also all the units I have been a member of have had a real close working relationship with the AF.  Also I can also say that I have gotten nothing but support in a CAP capacity from the AF simply by asking. 

Sorry but you are off base on your assessment in this regards,  there is a close relationship and if there is not one in your area you need to take the steps to correct it.   

If that IS the case, can you tell me how many direct augmentation missions the CAP conducts with the USAF each year? 

Every SAR, CD and DHS mission CAP flies is Direct Augmentation.  Every hour we fly is one hour the USAF can use for training or flying combat missions.  I fly for the Green Flag missions......missions that the USAF CANNOT....I SAY AGAIN.....CANNOT fly due to combat requirements.  WE ARE AUGMENTING the USAF.

We don't do it the same way the GCAUX does it.....but we do augment the USAF and at least at the MAJCOM level they know who we are and they know we do a good job and appreciate us.

[Shuman 14]

First off, I hope no one is taking my questions as a disparagement of their service, I really do think very highly of your volunteer service to our Nation, so my bad if I insulted anyone. NOT what I came here to do.

So maybe a better way to ask my question is, when and why did the change come down?

Was it the USAF that dictated the change  from blue to maroon to grey?

Was it someone at CAP corporate HQ that dictated it?

OR

Was it some kind of consensus by your leadership and management that dictated the change?

AND

Is there anyway to change it now or are we just discussing something will never change, regardless of the input of the membership of CAP?
 

[Eclipse]

^ Seriously, that's miles of bad road and search is your friend on this site if you really want to drive it again.

It's tied to Congressionally-mandated changes to our charter back in the '90's. 

Some say it was because of bad behavior on the part of some high-visibility members and the leadership, some say it was inevitable with the
reduction in the military (BRAC, etc.) as well as the changing mission and huge drawn-downs, some say it was well-intentioned re-scoping to
allow us to reach for more and different missions as well as funding from other sources that did not produce the  results desired.

Most believe it was a combination of the above as well as any number of other factors.   Those who try and draw straight lines from certain events to
specific results usually fins the lines can't be drawn as straight as they were led to believe.

Frankly, it really doesn't matter at this point.

[Shuman 14]

OK, but CAN you change the uniform if you want to or does it require USAF approval and/or Congressional approval?

[Garibaldi]

I can't accurately describe the chain but I think it goes something like this.

Uniform change idea goes to National Uniform Committee.

NUC meets, talks about proposed change.

Change is submitted to Executive Committee? or the National command staff. Or something. Eventually...

The final decision lies with the CSAF, I believe, if what I've read here is accurate.

[RiverAux]

Don't want to take this any more off the rails than it is, but someone asked earlier about the relative size of CAP and CG Aux.  CG Aux has about 30,000 members.  CAP has 35,000 senior members. 

[JoeTomasone]

Why can't people get it into their thick skulls that we are CIVILIANS who are afforded the PRIVILEGE of wearing a military-style uniform?

Because it is either not taught or not taught well enough.   In my experience, C&C and compliance with 39-1 is simply not considered important/enforced amongst the SM corps, and I've seen units where it extends to Cadets as well.   

[Shuman 14]

I can't accurately describe the chain but I think it goes something like this.

Uniform change idea goes to National Uniform Committee.

NUC meets, talks about proposed change.

Change is submitted to Executive Committee? or the National command staff. Or something. Eventually...

The final decision lies with the CSAF, I believe, if what I've read here is accurate.

So the Chief of Staff approved your corporate "Sky Captain, and the World of Tomorrow" uniform? 

Or is it only the USAF style ones he controls?

[abdsp51]

I can't accurately describe the chain but I think it goes something like this.

Uniform change idea goes to National Uniform Committee.

NUC meets, talks about proposed change.

Change is submitted to Executive Committee? or the National command staff. Or something. Eventually...

The final decision lies with the CSAF, I believe, if what I've read here is accurate.

So the Chief of Staff approved your corporate "Sky Captain, and the World of Tomorrow" uniform? 

Or is it only the USAF style ones he controls?

Ok this leads me to believe you are not a member.  Corporations controls Corp uniforms and the AF controls AF style uniforms.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Not in CAP.

[Eclipse]

Ok this leads me to believe you are not a member.  Corporations controls Corp uniforms and the AF controls AF style uniforms.

The USAF controls all of the uniforms.

[Shuman 14]

I can't accurately describe the chain but I think it goes something like this.

Uniform change idea goes to National Uniform Committee.

NUC meets, talks about proposed change.

Change is submitted to Executive Committee? or the National command staff. Or something. Eventually...

The final decision lies with the CSAF, I believe, if what I've read here is accurate.

So the Chief of Staff approved your corporate "Sky Captain, and the World of Tomorrow" uniform? 

Or is it only the USAF style ones he controls?

Ok this leads me to believe you are not a member.  Corporations controls Corp uniforms and the AF controls AF style uniforms.

Correct, I'm not a member... I never claimed to be either, just a supporter.

[PHall]

I can't accurately describe the chain but I think it goes something like this.

Uniform change idea goes to National Uniform Committee.

NUC meets, talks about proposed change.

Change is submitted to Executive Committee? or the National command staff. Or something. Eventually...

The final decision lies with the CSAF, I believe, if what I've read here is accurate.

So the Chief of Staff approved your corporate "Sky Captain, and the World of Tomorrow" uniform? 

Or is it only the USAF style ones he controls?

Ok this leads me to believe you are not a member.  Corporations controls Corp uniforms and the AF controls AF style uniforms.

Correct, I'm not a member... I never claimed to be either, just a supporter.

So you're NOT a member, but you decide to join a board that is meant for members of an organization that you are not a member of and you start a thread about something you know nothing about.

Hmmmm, sounds a bit trollish to me...

[a2capt]

CAP membership is not a pre-requisite to use this forum.

[Shuman 14]

I can't accurately describe the chain but I think it goes something like this.

Uniform change idea goes to National Uniform Committee.

NUC meets, talks about proposed change.

Change is submitted to Executive Committee? or the National command staff. Or something. Eventually...

The final decision lies with the CSAF, I believe, if what I've read here is accurate.

So the Chief of Staff approved your corporate "Sky Captain, and the World of Tomorrow" uniform? 

Or is it only the USAF style ones he controls?

Ok this leads me to believe you are not a member.  Corporations controls Corp uniforms and the AF controls AF style uniforms.

Correct, I'm not a member... I never claimed to be either, just a supporter.

So you're NOT a member, but you decide to join a board that is meant for members of an organization that you are not a member of and you start a thread about something you know nothing about.

Hmmmm, sounds a bit trollish to me...

I came here to get an answer to a question (see my first post in the education forum), got my answer but decided to stick around for the debate.

As an outsider looking in, I guess my opinions and observations are "worthless" to you? You don't care how a non-member perceives the CAP on face value? How a career military officer from a sister Service perceives the CAP means nothing? 

I brought up the fact in a previous thread that I thought the grey epaulet slides just looked "off", that is to say wrong and was trying to understand why you wear that godawful looking piece of uniform accessory in the first place. That lead to a debate of how to fix it.

If that makes me a troll, where do I find my bridge to live under? 

[abdsp51]

I came here to get an answer to a question (see my first post in the education forum), got my answer but decided to stick around for the debate.

As an outsider looking in, I guess my opinions and observations are "worthless" to you? You don't care how a non-member perceives the CAP on face value? How a career military officer from a sister Service perceives the CAP means nothing? 

I brought up the fact in a previous thread that I thought the grey epaulet slides just looked "off", that is to say wrong and was trying to understand why you wear that godawful looking piece of uniform accessory in the first place. That lead to a debate of how to fix it.

If that makes me a troll, where do I find my bridge to live under?

You tried to tell us how to fix it in your post.  And we have had the grey slides that you abhore so much since about 95/96.  They are far better than the Maroon that used to be worn.  The grey slides are ten times better than the maroon.

Opinions are valued however you basically walked into our house and told us we were effed and how to fix it.   How would you like to have someone come into your area or a board dedicated to the Army or Marines and voice the same opinion.  I have worked rather closely with the Army and have seen many things that I felt were effed up, but not once did I tell them how to fix it. 

Having an opinion is one thing presenting it and then telling us how to fix how jacked we are is another.  Plus you generalized CAP officers as unprofessional and troll for salutes.

[Eclipse]

Phall tends to be somewhat "direct" for no particular reason based we guess on his gastrointestinal health, so I wouldn't take his
shot as typical for here.

With that said calling our uniform "god awful" isn't exactly going to get you on the "nice" Christmas card list, either.
Every service has a few inexplicable things that don't look "right" to an outsider, but simply "are".

Our status keeps use squarely in the sites of just about everyone, with little advantage for all the opinions and approvals we
have to get to make what would seem like logical "minor" changes.  It makes all of us somewhat sensitive about the situation because
neither logic, nor the opinion of the masses, is generally utilized in the ultimate decisions.

Further compounding the issue is that we have to deal with the perceived financial burden placed on the membership, especially
cadets, when major changes are made.  I personally think this is mostly a red herring, but it's a piece of the puzzle.

[Shuman 14]

I came here to get an answer to a question (see my first post in the education forum), got my answer but decided to stick around for the debate.

As an outsider looking in, I guess my opinions and observations are "worthless" to you? You don't care how a non-member perceives the CAP on face value? How a career military officer from a sister Service perceives the CAP means nothing? 

I brought up the fact in a previous thread that I thought the grey epaulet slides just looked "off", that is to say wrong and was trying to understand why you wear that godawful looking piece of uniform accessory in the first place. That lead to a debate of how to fix it.

If that makes me a troll, where do I find my bridge to live under?

You tried to tell us how to fix it in your post.  And we have had the grey slides that you abhore so much since about 95/96.  They are far better than the Maroon that used to be worn.  The grey slides are ten times better than the maroon.

Opinions are valued however you basically walked into our house and told us we were effed and how to fix it.   How would you like to have someone come into your area or a board dedicated to the Army or Marines and voice the same opinion.  I have worked rather closely with the Army and have seen many things that I felt were effed up, but not once did I tell them how to fix it. 

Having an opinion is one thing presenting it and then telling us how to fix how jacked we are is another.  Plus you generalized CAP officers as unprofessional and troll for salutes.

Hold on now, I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. I never said you were "jacked up" or "salute trolls", I have nothing but respect for volunteers who do good work for no pay and make our country stronger and help train our youth to better Americans.

Identifying a problem and offering suggestions on how to fix is what you're suppose to do. Walking in and saying you're jacked up and walking out is the @zzhole move.

So do you think the grey epaulets look good? I agree they do look better than the maroon, but are the best color choice, in your opinion?

If you too believe that the grey epaulets could be better done or done away with, why don't you want to discuss it? The fact that an outsider brought up the discussion shouldn't matter... should it?

BTW I'm considering joining CAP, another reason I cam here was to learn more about the culture and people in the organization, but this attack sure makes me feel warm and welcomed.