Community service ribbon: ACTUAL qualifications and proof?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Just look at who we give advanced promotions to in the first place.

Yes, we're certainly more generous with those than the RealMilitary.

Add to that the fact that even with out a break in service.......specialty rateings don't expire.....that is get a masters in CAP in your first three years in CAP......and then you switch over to some other area......that master rateing is still good for level IV and Lt Col even if you have not done CP for 3-4 years.

That's not what I was told, Master Sergeant.  I was told that I was applying for promotion based on the "past," not the "now."

[ColonelJack]

From all I've read, I've reached this conclusion:

CyBorg is getting hosed, and there's something about it that stinks.  Someone in his chain of command is playing fast and loose with the regs.

Jack

[MSG Mac]

I'm a little confused about the "sell-by" date reference, though.

Basically, I have been told that although I had all the qualifications (including Level III/Loening completed in 2004), due to the time passed since the accomplishments, they were not acceptable in the "here and now" in terms of promotability.

I had been out for three years (2006-2009) before coming back into CAP.

Unfortunately, the Senior Member Training Report only shows the first time you attended the course, not the latest or repeat courses.

Mine shows OBC (ECI-7)-1972, SLS 1984CLC-1984, Yeager-1983, and RSC 1984, and NSC 1985. I guess I wouldn't get promoted in your Wing either.

[Eclipse]

^ You can get those changed if you are so inclined.  It just takes a memo to NHQ.

It's not generally necessary, but it is possible.

[Private Investigator]

From all I've read, I've reached this conclusion:

CyBorg is getting hosed, and there's something about it that stinks.  Someone in his chain of command is playing fast and loose with the regs.

Jack

I agree. If I was CyBorg's Skipper he would be promoted. "Someone" needs to be fixed.

[Eclipse]

From all I've read, I've reached this conclusion:

CyBorg is getting hosed, and there's something about it that stinks.  Someone in his chain of command is playing fast and loose with the regs.

Jack

I agree. If I was CyBorg's Skipper he would be promoted. "Someone" needs to be fixed.

We're venturing into PERSEC, and discussing things he hasn't posted openly.  Suffice to say that in this case it is not the Unit CC's call.
Major is a wing-level approval, so his CC's opinion only goes so far.

[Private Investigator]

From all I've read, I've reached this conclusion:

CyBorg is getting hosed, and there's something about it that stinks.  Someone in his chain of command is playing fast and loose with the regs.

Jack

I agree. If I was CyBorg's Skipper he would be promoted. "Someone" needs to be fixed.

We're venturing into PERSEC, and discussing things he hasn't posted openly.  Suffice to say that in this case it is not the Unit CC's call.
Major is a wing-level approval, so his CC's opinion only goes so far.

As a Group Commander Emeritus I would take it up with the chain of command. I have heard some pretty silly reasons why people have not been promoted in CAP.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm a fresh Capt, 23, and already seen some of the BS from wing level about "standards" for Major, to make it mean more from folks who are  O4/O5 under the GOBN days keeping others down...when good, active Captains and Majorsdoubt if they will ever get the next promotion because of wing policies outside of what is required, it is a problem.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We're venturing into PERSEC, and discussing things he hasn't posted openly.  Suffice to say that in this case it is not the Unit CC's call.
Major is a wing-level approval, so his CC's opinion only goes so far.

In this case, as many know, it didn't even get past Group.  Wing has no idea of the situation, as far as I know.

I was told that it was halted at the squadron after conversations with Group, because Group said there was no way Wing would accept it.

My membership is up in June.  I'll be [darn]ed if I kneel and beg to get a gold oak leaf just because someone up the line may have prejudices that I stand no chance of overcoming anyway.

I've talked about this with others in CAP...usually the standard response is "promotions are not guaranteed" and "Membership in Civil Air Patrol is a privilege, not a right."

When in doubt, restate the obvious.

[spaatzmom]

We're venturing into PERSEC, and discussing things he hasn't posted openly.  Suffice to say that in this case it is not the Unit CC's call.
Major is a wing-level approval, so his CC's opinion only goes so far.

In this case, as many know, it didn't even get past Group.  Wing has no idea of the situation, as far as I know.

I was told that it was halted at the squadron after conversations with Group, because Group said there was no way Wing would accept it.

My membership is up in June.  I'll be [darn]ed if I kneel and beg to get a gold oak leaf just because someone up the line may have prejudices that I stand no chance of overcoming anyway.

I am truly sorry that you are having such a difficult time in trying to attain your Major, but I am reminded of something my Great Grandfather taught me.  If you are unwilling to stand up and defend yourself to the best of your abilities, then why should someone else do it for you.  No one is saying you need to kneel let alone beg for what you believe is your due, but you have to at least present your reasons for justification in a rational manner to those who may be seeing that if you don't believe it why should they.  I hope it does all work out for you.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am truly sorry that you are having such a difficult time in trying to attain your Major, but I am reminded of something my Great Grandfather taught me.  If you are unwilling to stand up and defend yourself to the best of your abilities, then why should someone else do it for you.  No one is saying you need to kneel let alone beg for what you believe is your due, but you have to at least present your reasons for justification in a rational manner to those who may be seeing that if you don't believe it why should they.  I hope it does all work out for you.

If you knew the situation, you would know that I have presented my case in a "rational" manner.  I'm not going to post the correspondence I've written here.  Suffice it to say that it has to do with possible discrimination issues that the powers-that-be are unequipped to deal with and/or don't have the willingness to deal with.

If you knew me, you would know that you do not need to encourage me of your Great-Grandfather's opinion.  I grew up fighting.  My dad (Army veteran) always said to me, "don't go stirring up trouble, but don't kiss anyone's butt either."  I tend to be a very reserved person, but I will not willingly lie down and be kicked.

The problem with taking such an attitude in CAP is the bloody GOBN.  Tick the "wrong" people off and at worst you can be 2B'd; at best, you will remain exactly where you are for the rest of your time in CAP.  I have seen it too many times in almost 20 years.

Don't worry...if I get to the point where I feel like I've nothing left to lose I'll take it directly to the national CC.  After all, there is the "ask the National Commander a question" function on E-Services.

[lordmonar]

Just look at who we give advanced promotions to in the first place.

Yes, we're certainly more generous with those than the RealMilitary.

Yes...but we are not the RealMilitary.......and you would be suprised who the real military gives advanced promotions to.

Add to that the fact that even with out a break in service.......specialty rateings don't expire.....that is get a masters in CAP in your first three years in CAP......and then you switch over to some other area......that master rateing is still good for level IV and Lt Col even if you have not done CP for 3-4 years.

That's not what I was told, Master Sergeant.  I was told that I was applying for promotion based on the "past," not the "now."

If you took the chip off your shoulder.....maybe you would get promoted.   If your promotion is held up at group....that means the real problem is that your squadron commander is not willing to go to bat for you.......and I can think where that comes from.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If you took the chip off your shoulder.....maybe you would get promoted.   If your promotion is held up at group....that means the real problem is that your squadron commander is not willing to go to bat for you.......and I can think where that comes from.

Master Sergeant, I respect you and your opinions, but in this case you do not know the situation.  It is reflexive, not deductive, to falsely assume a "chip on the shoulder" when you are not fully aware of the circumstances...no matter how similar it may seem to situations in your own experience.

[lordmonar]

If you took the chip off your shoulder.....maybe you would get promoted.   If your promotion is held up at group....that means the real problem is that your squadron commander is not willing to go to bat for you.......and I can think where that comes from.

Master Sergeant, I respect you and your opinions, but in this case you do not know the situation.  It is reflexive, not deductive, to falsely assume a "chip on the shoulder" when you are not fully aware of the circumstances...no matter how similar it may seem to situations in your own experience.

Call them like I see them Captain.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Call them like I see them Captain.

So noted.  Thus far you are the only one to express such an opinion of my situation.

You, of course, have a right to your opinion, uninformed though it may be, and I have a right to disregard it, truculent though that may seem.

[MSG Mac]

Has Group given a written response to the application? As they're supposed to? Or was it a conversation between Group and your commander. Ask for a written explanation. Simply saying that we turned it down, because we think the Wing will, is not a valid excuse.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Has Group given a written response to the application? As they're supposed to? Or was it a conversation between Group and your commander. Ask for a written explanation. Simply saying that we turned it down, because we think the Wing will, is not a valid excuse.

No, they have not.  And I did write a detailed enquiry to the Group Commander asking for just that - a written explanation.

The only written explanation came from the promotion board at my Squadron, and my CC told me of his conversation with Group CC.

[Private Investigator]

I'm a fresh Capt, 23, and already seen some of the BS from wing level about "standards" for Major, to make it mean more from folks who are  O4/O5 under the GOBN days keeping others down...when good, active Captains and Majorsdoubt if they will ever get the next promotion because of wing policies outside of what is required, it is a problem.

That happens all over CAP. GOBN keeping 23 year old Captains from advancing but the next Wing over GOBN keeping 75 year old Captains from advancing. CAP is really lacking team effort. It is getting like little league. You can be the worst player on the team but if your dad is the manager you get to play first base.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That happens all over CAP. GOBN keeping 23 year old Captains from advancing but the next Wing over GOBN keeping 75 year old Captains from advancing. CAP is really lacking team effort. It is getting like little league. You can be the worst player on the team but if your dad is the manager you get to play first base.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I don't know if that can ever be changed.  It's entrenched so deeply in CAP that it's become part of the organisation.  The last time I left CAP, I said "I've had enough of this."

But, as I said earlier, I ran into a CAP member and her cadet daughter one day, struck up a conversation, and the member (whom I like; she's never been anything but courteous to me) started with "Oh, we need someone like you, your experience, etc."

I'm not blaming her.  I allowed myself to be suckered into it.  The leopard hasn't changed it's spots...so more fool me.

[SARDOC]

For the Promotion to Major...the Approving authority is the Wing Commander.  In the RealMilitary awards/promotions/requests always get reviewed by the approving authority.  It's the responsibility of the CoC to Forward....each link in the chain can forward either endorsing the request or provide the approving authority a reason to not approve.  Either way for the Group Commander to withhold I think is a gross misuse of authority.  I understand that this is the Common way CAP does business, but that doesn't make it right.  If disapproving the request it at a minimum should be done in writing.  Even if it's an email for documentation purposes.

If the Group Commander doesn't respond to your inquiry, it's completely appropriate to go to the Wing Commander because it's the ultimate responsibility of the Wing Commander if the group commander isn't doing his job.