Community service ribbon: ACTUAL qualifications and proof?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Keep drivin on Cyborg...  While others may not say it, I appreciate the guys/gals who take care of the paperwork...  It's the one thing that noone ever wants to do...  Keep up the good work!  You are a very important part of this organization!   :clap:

Well, thank you.  I do appreciate that.  You're one of the few to notice, let alone give me the attaboy you just did.

As to the ribbons, who really cares?  It is this mindset that casts foulness into the organization.  If someone wants to troll for ribbons, why should you care?  If they earned it and they provide the proof, just sign the form and move on.  We all know there are people out there who want chest candy.  If they are doing their job, let them have it.

Point taken, but I'm not in a position of command (though I am a former Deputy Commander) and not in a position to provide such sign-offs.  What irritates me a bit are those who haven't even got their 2nd Lieutenant yet, who have probably just passed Level I, and are already wearing CommComms and Achievement Ribbons (sometimes multiple)...just for "knowing the right people" or glad-handing, making sure Group/Wing knows who they are, etc.  Perhaps I'm just too reserved to be able to do that sort of thing; it's very alien to my nature and upbringing.

I am getting really irritated with people who think that awarding a ribbon "cheapens" it. 

Depending on circumstances/personages involved, I am too.  Call me cynical, but I just don't see how a new member with less than six months in the organisation can be wearing Achievement Awards and CommComms.  My first CAP ribbon was the Membership Ribbon, which I got just before I got pinned 2nd Lieutenant, and I was bloody surprised to get that.

In my 20 years with this organization, I have only considered one person to have really "cheapened" any award and that was when HWSNBN gave himself and some others a SMV for watching a traffic accident. 

As you know, he did much more than that to cheapen not just awards, but CAP as a whole.  And the one good idea he did have, the CSU, got taken away for reasons unknown.

When I went through UCC, they told us (the students) that the awards committee was getting bored and that we should praise our people by recommending awards for them.  Unfortunately, we have a "Keeper of the Key" on the committee who blocks everything unless you commit an act of bravery that would get you the MoH, and then you might still get disapproved for an Achievement Award.  The "keepers of the key" who won't process awards for the "cheapening" need to find a new mall to cop.  I can't even get COMCOM's for people who really deserve them because of our "keeper of the key".  There was another one in CA who wouldn't process an award unless he had one (he's gone now I think).

I dealt with one of those "gatekeepers" long ago in CAP...if not for that person, I would probably be a Lieutenant Colonel today.  This wing PD officer would not accept a signed letter from the commander of another wing attesting he saw me participating in an activity in his wing!  The wingco knew this person was wrong (and told me as much) but for whatever reason he wouldn't rock the boat with it (nor would my then-Squadron CC).  That led to one of my two departures from CAP.

As I've said, I really don't like to give the impression that I'm trolling for ribbons, rank, etc., but more than one person has told me from my first day in CAP almost 20 years ago that is how we are "paid."

[Devil Doc]

How can someone with less than Six months in be wearing a Comm Comm & Achievment awards? To me that sounds like no one in there unit was top shot as that SM. I got two ribbons the Membership and the Yeager. Do i wish i had more? Yes, but if i got a Comm Comm or Achievment award and the people i know that work with cadets or run ES or the Chaplain dont get one, why am i complaining? I am working on the CSR. I am part of the Redcross, Team Rubicon, and Habitat for Humanity, which i just started so im no were near the 60 hours needed. If i could count my volunteer hours before CAP (which i Cant) i would have gold stars on my CSR, the older i get, the harder it is to do community service.

[Eclipse]

How can someone with less than Six months in be wearing a Comm Comm & Achievement awards?

Staff an encampment, work on a large-scale project, deploy to a disaster area, fix a failed-high visibility process, assume a staff position no one else wants
and turn an inspection from "Unsat" to "Excellent" in one click, be instrumental in procuring a significant resource like a building, vehicle or grant, etc., etc.

Happens all the time, I've signed some of them.  Generally it is because of people who are able to open the door when opportunity knocks.
That takes preparation, training, and the willingness to forgo other activities, family vacations, and sometimes work$$ to serve in CAP.
Opportunity is many times a chance situation, and not everyone can take advantage of all the opportunities, but if you avail yourself of
the entire CAP buffet, not just a single menu page, they come around more often then many people think.

When I first joined, I was told "no one ever gets the DR-V" around here.  By the time I was a Group CC myself, I had one member who received
3 in less then a calendar year, along with the commendations that accompanied the service.

With that said, I throw the flag on too many butter bars wearing multiple decs, especially comm-comms.  Has it happend, I'm sure.  Often enough to view
as anything more then "???".  No way.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Would any of you consider another scenario?

Someone rejoining after a long abscence.

Since they earned all that tuti-fruti before, they can wear it. However their grade reinstaement is denied by current authorities. They have to earn the grade anew.

Flyer

[Devil Doc]

That is understandable, I am a part of alot of things in CAP, you should see my 101 Card. Does that mean i need a Comm Comm? No. I have only had the chance to go on one Mission, but it was cancelled. So that being said, unless your in a really active unit, or you love to brownnose, i dont see it often.

[Eclipse]

That is understandable, I am a part of alot of things in CAP, you should see my 101 Card. Does that mean i need a Comm Comm? No. I have only had the chance to go on one Mission, but it was cancelled. So that being said, unless your in a really active unit, or you love to brownnose, i dont see it often.

If you're only active at the unit level, your odds of receiving decorations are going to me lower then if you venture out.  Why?  Well, for starters,
most of the decs indicate that "doing your job well", isn't necessarily grounds for the award.  A baseline expectation of membership
is regularly attending meetings and serving some sort of staff or operational role (in fact, if you're in CAP as an adult and don't do at least one
of those things, one wonders why you are a member).  That service, in and of itself, puts our members a cut above their couch-surfing neighbors,
but it doesn't rise to the level of comparative excellence among peers.

Doing it well for a long time, or under special circumstances, sometimes, but it is difficult to standout from peers when you're all doing the same thing.
Appreciated, vital to the organization, but hard to characterize for a 120.

[Devil Doc]

Unit level is the only way to serve? Encampments have to take vacation off work, doing stuff for the wing? Dont liv close enough. I do Participate in almost every function, but if it requires overnight, kinda harder to do.

How can you do stuff besides on unit level that what i have mentioned?

[Eclipse]

How can you do stuff besides on unit level that what i have mentioned?

Assuming I understand the question, the answer might be "you can't", and there's nothing wrong with that.  Everyone has their personal limitations
of time and circumstance, and maybe the unit level is where you can have the most impact - that's great.  The unit is where CAP needs the most people.

[C/MSGT Montez]

For my ribbon, I volunteered at my local church doing landscaping and all that jazz. When me and the pastor calculated my total, I had at least 60 hours. So he wrote a letter stating I had completed 60 hours of volunteer service doing (x), then signed it.

I didn't choose to go out and ask the pastor if I could do volunteer work for the church. I happened to already be doing that, well before I even joined CAP. It just happened to work out that I had enough hours for the CSR since I had joined CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Would any of you consider another scenario?

Someone rejoining after a long abscence.

Since they earned all that tuti-fruti before, they can wear it. However their grade reinstaement is denied by current authorities. They have to earn the grade anew.

Flyer

When I last rejoined, I offered to do that...rejoin as an SMWOG and work back up the ladder.  However, my then-CC got my grade of Captain reinstated.  I almost wish it had been denied.

Assuming I understand the question, the answer might be "you can't", and there's nothing wrong with that.  Everyone has their personal limitations
of time and circumstance, and maybe the unit level is where you can have the most impact - that's great.  The unit is where CAP needs the most people.

Which is my dilemma as well, though for somewhat different reasons.

However, as Eclipse has said, it doesn't mean a lot in terms of earning awards.

In that respect, I feel a bit like a hamster on a wheel.  Running on that wheel may generate power at the local level, but you're still not getting anywhere.

I live in a large wing/state.  There are people who are able to come from the other side of the galaxy wing on a regular basis (mostly pilots) and do all this stuff/make their presence known/brown-nose/kiss up/whatever.

As Devil Doc and myself have both said, for some members that just is not feasible/possible...so I suppose we're kind of "second-tier" in terms of membership.

[ColonelJack]

Would any of you consider another scenario?

Someone rejoining after a long abscence.

Since they earned all that tuti-fruti before, they can wear it. However their grade reinstaement is denied by current authorities. They have to earn the grade anew.

Flyer

When I rejoined in 2009 after an absence of some 12 years, my Squadron CC put the request to reinstate my grade through channels.  The Wing CC held it up, suggesting that I be appointed a major instead of a lieutenant colonel - and that I re-earn the promotion.  The Squadron CC went to bat for me; he'd recruited me from my retirement and explained that he didn't want me to have to do that.  I don't know how much political capital he had to expend, but the Wing CC backed down and okayed the grade reinstatement.

Jack

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't get why reinstatement is such an issue...

[Luis R. Ramos]

Two members started questioning how could a member of six months have a lot of tutti-fruti including a Com Com. To the point of suggesting contempt towards that member. Or maybe I interpreted it that way. I just stated a possible scenario where those members with that much tutti could have apparently minimal service: no reinstatement.

Flyer

[Devil Doc]

Two members started questioning how could a member of six months have a lot of tutti-fruti including a Com Com. To the point of suggesting contempt towards that member. Or maybe I interpreted it that way. I just stated a possible scenario where those members with that much tutti could have apparently minimal service: no reinstatement.

Flyer

Which would not explain.......Why? and how come?

[SARDOC]

I don't get why reinstatement is such an issue...

I don't know why either.  It's not like there are a finite number of positions at each grade.  The Rank only shows length of service associated with completion of professional development requirements.  Just because they have let their membership lapse for a while because sometimes life gets in the way doesn't mean they haven't earned it.

When I rejoined in 2009 after an absence of some 12 years, my Squadron CC put the request to reinstate my grade through channels.  The Wing CC held it up, suggesting that I be appointed a major instead of a lieutenant colonel - and that I re-earn the promotion.

The Wing Commander isn't required to reinstate the grade but there is nothing that states he can just substitute a lower grade either such as the example above.  Either he/she reinstates the Grade or not.

[Eclipse]

Two members started questioning how could a member of six months have a lot of tutti-fruti including a Com Com. To the point of suggesting contempt towards that member. Or maybe I interpreted it that way. I just stated a possible scenario where those members with that much tutti could have apparently minimal service: no reinstatement.

Flyer

Which would not explain.......Why? and how come?

I offered an explanation as well.

[Eclipse]

I don't get why reinstatement is such an issue...

I don't know why either.  It's not like there are a finite number of positions at each grade.  The Rank only shows length of service associated with completion of professional development requirements.  Just because they have let their membership lapse for a while because sometimes life gets in the way doesn't mean they haven't earned it.

Well, for starters, define "while".

Someone who quit in 1999 and comes back today would have difficulty recognizing CAP.  If promotions are based on Professional Development, which itself is supposed
to be a gauge of progress activity and experience, then if what you "know" isn't relevent, then on what basis is the grade still conferred?

SLS/CLC/TLC(new)/UCC many of the tracks, and nearly every regulation, process, and program have undergone substantial change in that 10 year period.
Is someone who was reasonably active in 1999 capable of just picking up where they left off in terms of value to the organization, or are they going to
take a year or two to get back up to speed?

I'd say that's at least a reasonable position to hold.

[Garibaldi]

I don't get why reinstatement is such an issue...

I don't know why either.  It's not like there are a finite number of positions at each grade.  The Rank only shows length of service associated with completion of professional development requirements.  Just because they have let their membership lapse for a while because sometimes life gets in the way doesn't mean they haven't earned it.

Well, for starters, define "while".

Someone who quit in 1999 and comes back today would have difficulty recognizing CAP.  If promotions are based on Professional Development, which itself is supposed
to be a gauge of progress activity and experience, then if what you "know" isn't relevent, then on what basis is the grade still conferred?

SLS/CLC/TLC(new)/UCC many of the tracks, and nearly every regulation, process, and program have undergone substantial change in that 10 year period.
Is someone who was reasonably active in 1999 capable of just picking up where they left off in terms of value to the organization, or are they going to
take a year or two to get back up to speed?

I'd say that's at least a reasonable position to hold.

I left in 2006 and came back on 2012 and I hardly recognized things from a PD standpoint. Everything had changed quite a bit, even Level One. I finished that up in less than a week, but it was interesting how much things had changed since I first went through in 1992.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Devil and Eclipse-

In re-reading your comments before my posting regarding the ComComs and your answers to this posting, I guess that your questions on "how come a member with low service can have that much tutti," were more of the rhetorical kind of question.

Sorry to have misunderstood your initial posting.

Flyer

[SarDragon]

Not so hypothetical situation:

Member 'A' lets his membership lapse for 10 years and then decides to participate due to a change in life circumstances. He does all the necessary paperwork, and maybe gets his rank reinstated.

Member 'B' just stops participating for the same 10 years, paying dues every year, and keeping current(?) through the monthly rag. He has no paperwork to do, and is just as clueless about changes in the program.

In practicality, what's the difference?