Uniform Tape Test

[Devil Doc]

I am not sure if this topic has been created.

I am asking should CAP have a BF Tape test? There is some of us that can pull of looking good in the Uniform, even though we are not in Height Weight Standards. Should be just allow everyone to wear the blues, like the cadets do? I do not know how to create a poll.

P.S I went to an SLS, there was numerous people wearing the blues, that im certain was not in H/W standards.

[Eclipse]

No - the USAF doesn't do that anymore and neither should we.
If anything is to change we should simply eliminate the weight tables, or adjust them into reality and then never have the conversation again.

[Devil Doc]

The AF does a "Body Composition" test. So your saying they should adjust the weight standards to reality as in weight? Eliminating them and let everyone where the blues? Elaborate? Im assuming your tired of hearing abot H/W standards arnt ya?

[Nuke52]

Eh, let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be.  A BF tape test is just one more convoluted criterion for people to pencil whip.  (Ever had a cadet tell you his school gym teacher already tested him on push ups and sit ups today so he doesn't need to be tested again?  Riiiight.)  Whom do you propose conduct the BF tape test?  If I had the choice whether to be a tester, uhh, no thanks...

And, no, not everyone should be allowed to wear the blues.  Our H/W standards are already more "generous" than the AF's, let's keep them exactly where they are.  Wearing the AF-style uniform is not 2012 little league baseball (everyone gets a uniform, everyone gets a trophy).  If you don't meet the AF-style standards, wear a uniform you're authorized to wear.  I promise we'll still value your service.

On the other hand, there are probably people who fall inside the H/W standards when half of their total body weight is concentrated at their waistline and a (small) percentage of members who fall just outside the standards and all of their "extra" weight is in their biceps, pecs, and shoulder muscles.  If you are in the latter group and look good in uniform, no one will ever know or care what the number on the scale says...

[Eclipse]

The AF does a "Body Composition" test.

The USAF now has a specific and hard-fast abdominal circumference test, which has been a make or break for man
otherwise fit airman and officers.

http://www.airforce-pt.com/index.html

So your saying they should adjust the weight standards to reality as in weight? Eliminating them and let everyone where the blues? Elaborate?

That's exactly what I'm saying - they serve no purpose other then to cause an artificial schism between members.  Other similar organizations,
including military auxiliaries, do not have these requirements.

That, or actually enforce the regulations as written.  Regulations which are universally ignored serve no purpose other then to lose
our credibility.

Bottom line, we should have one uniform.

Period.

[Devil Doc]

Understandable about not everyone wearing the blues. I was asking to peak interest. There are some CAP Personnell that would tip a scale, but could still look good in uniform. Then there are some with Physical Limitations were they cannot lose weight. This is not to bash anybody, just a discussion. NONE, of us can change the reg anyway.

[Devil Doc]

The AF does a "Body Composition" test.

The USAF now has a specific and hard-fast abdominal circumference test, which has been a make or break for man
otherwise fit airman and officers.

http://www.airforce-pt.com/index.html

So your saying they should adjust the weight standards to reality as in weight? Eliminating them and let everyone where the blues? Elaborate?

That's exactly what I'm saying - they serve no purpose other then to cause an artificial schism between members.  Other similar organizations,
including military auxiliaries, do not have these requirements.

That, or actually enforce the regulations as written.  Regulations which are universally ignored serve no purpose other then to lose
our credibility.

Bottom line, we should have one uniform.

Period.

I didnt know that some auxillaries do not have weight standards? Interesting. I love seeing SMs in Polo, Blues, G/W, BBDU/BDU, makes us look colorfull.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I didnt know that some auxillaries do not have weight standards? Interesting. I love seeing SMs in Polo, Blues, G/W, BBDU/BDU, makes us look colorfull.

USCG AUX doesn't have them, just a "suggestion" on wearing their equivalent of our (bloody awful) blazer combo.

I think all the different uniforms make us look anything but uniform.  We were moving in the right direction with the CSU, but you know what happened with that.

Now we have a choice of looking like the AF or looking like a mall cop/security guard/Realtor.

[Devil Doc]

CSU? Anywho, yes we do not look "Uniform" You have some Uniform Nazis that will say certain things. I wear whatever i am authorized. Im having to wear a Civilian suit to our awards ceremony in Jan, where i will become a 2nd LT, everyone else? Blues!!

[Terry W.]

Seeing how CAP has NO bodyfat standards, taping someone would be pointless. I do feel however that asking someone who appears to not meet the standard for height and weight and is wearing a Air Force uniform to either wear the CAP distinctive uniform or step on a scale. It has to do with integrity to me and that is one of the core values, so there should be no discussion. I also think that if you are going to work with cadets you should wear the same uniform as them, it's a leader thing to me. We talk about uniformity a lot and CAP being a volunteer organization. Even if you put everyone in a CAP uniform there would be differences as there are those that will not want to conform to a grooming standard. The big thing I have seen over the years with CAP and peoples logic, unlike the military, is a lot of adults think that because it is a volunteer organization that you can pick and choose which rules to follow. The uniform regardless of whichever one it is, is a symbol of our heritage as an organization and also symbolic of the sacrifices that have been made. I have seen a fair amount of individuals that don't wear the uniform according to that belief. It is not just a peice of cloth.

[Devil Doc]

I agree with your post, People have shed blood to wear the uniform. There are adults who will conform with the grooming standards, but cant meet weight.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CSU?

Short-lived CAP uniform, instituted by former National CC, quite popular, taken from us with no explanation.

http://www.capmembers.com/cap_national_hq/member_services/uniform_information/new-corporate-uniform/

[Ned]

Of course, having been an Army company commander, I suppose I should point out that "taping" would require not only that CAP establish body fat standards, but more importantly that it would require all of us to stand around in our underwear once or twice a year while we wait to be taped. 

Sounds like a fun meeting.

And of course we would need to train and certify the "official tapers.".  Creating a substantial new requirement for every unit.  (And talk about a sought-after new job for each unit!)

And each unit would have to maintain their Weight Control records and be inspected on them.

And why are we considering this?  Honestly, what percentage of seniors and 18+ cadets will exceed the height/weight table and still make taping?  2%?  5%?

Is it worth it to go down this path and engage our AF partners?  What might they be likely to say?  Or ask in return?

[PHall]

CSU?

Short-lived CAP uniform, instituted by former National CC, quite popular, taken from us with no explanation.

http://www.capmembers.com/cap_national_hq/member_services/uniform_information/new-corporate-uniform/

Yes, quite popular with some of the membership, but not all...

[Eclipse]

Yes, quite popular with some of the membership, but not all...

Point?  Nothing will ever be popular with everyone.

Some don't like blues, some don't like whites, to some the very idea of being told to wear anything but flip flops and shorts
is an affront before their deity.

[inactive123]

The AF does a "Body Composition" test.

The USAF now has a specific and hard-fast abdominal circumference test, which has been a make or break for man
otherwise fit airman and officers.

http://www.airforce-pt.com/index.html

So your saying they should adjust the weight standards to reality as in weight? Eliminating them and let everyone where the blues? Elaborate?

That's exactly what I'm saying - they serve no purpose other then to cause an artificial schism between members.  Other similar organizations,
including military auxiliaries, do not have these requirements.

That, or actually enforce the regulations as written.  Regulations which are universally ignored serve no purpose other then to lose
our credibility.

Bottom line, we should have one uniform.

Period.

I didnt know that some auxillaries do not have weight standards? Interesting. I love seeing SMs in Polo, Blues, G/W, BBDU/BDU, makes us look colorfull.

Not just weight standards, but for the US Coast Aux you an wear a beard. The Coast Guard authorized  member to wear beards until 1986. My dad actually know a few who did.
     
       I like the two options members have because we are an auxiliary volunteer organization that privileges you to wearing the AF uniform IF you follow the regulations. As the unit I'm in teaches us this is a professional volunteer organization that follows military traditions. On the other hand(thinking Special Ops)as long as you complete the mission safely and it completes CAP's three missions, it doesn't really matter what you wear, unless its honor guard, color guard, and certain cadet activities etc. If you are in it just for the uniforms (and donuts) I think thee is better options for you. I like what the California wing has done with their ES uniforms. Other wings have teams with camouflaged uniforms with a oranges waviest that only covers maybe 30%. Not saying BDUs aren't the best, but when on a search and rescue mission California's uniform wins by far. And our Point isn't to hide from the rescue (which was BDUs originally made for hiding and killing) . That's just my opinion.

[PHall]

Yes, quite popular with some of the membership, but not all...

Point?  Nothing will ever be popular with everyone.

Some don't like blues, some don't like whites, to some the very idea of being told to wear anything but flip flops and shorts
is an affront before their deity.

I was clarifying his somewhat broad statement.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Not just weight standards, but for the US Coast Aux you an wear a beard. The Coast Guard authorized  member to wear beards until 1986. My dad actually know a few who did.

Other navies, especially in the British Commonwealth, still allow beards.


Commander Paul O'Grady, CSM, RAN
     

I like the two options members have because we are an auxiliary volunteer organization that privileges you to wearing the AF uniform IF you follow the regulations.

You're partly right.  Sometimes "following the regulations" doesn't come into it.  Sometimes the privilege of wearing the AF uniform is denied to members because of factors beyond their control (heredity, side effects of medication, illness, disability).

I was clarifying his somewhat broad statement.

Which was never meant to imply universality.

Point?  Nothing will ever be popular with everyone.

It seems that, in uniform matters, the concern over what is generally popular or liked by the membership is not of great concern to those at the top (no offence to Ned).  It's much more, "AF blues or grey/white.  That's what you've got.  Suck it up."

Even the Air Force (General Fogleman actually) changed the generally unpopular "McPeak" uniform.

[TarRiverRat]

I personally believe that we all should wear one uniform.  If we dont all meet AF standards for dress then everyone should wear the CAP uniform.  We would be more uniformed if we did than having part of our squadron in AF blues and the others in CAP distinctive.   

[AngelWings]

Switch all of us into one uniform set that is not nowhere near as readily available and easy to purchase down the street at the Army surplus store like the BDU? CAP's not a fashion show, and I shouldn't be forced to purchase CAP distinctive uniforms because someone else doesn't want to/isn't able to follow the standards. Just wear what you're allowed to and stop worrying about the uniforms, it's not actually affecting something important like our operational readiness.

It makes no difference in the long run because we're here to do our jobs and do them well, not look purdy in the latest Blu Dee U, Bee Dee U, or Aye Bee U (not that we wear it, but it's talked about enough to include it).

As to the OP, I would love to see this type of thing go along with a CAP fitness and well being program. Moreover, I think that some common sense should be used in picking who can and cannot wear the uniform. For example, if you're fat and are over the weight standards, you can't wear the USAF uniforms. If you're muscular and it's noticable, you can wear the USAF uniforms. Only reason I say this is I know a lot of huge muscle guys who would not meet CAP or USAF weight requirements due to the sheer amount of muscle weight they have.

With that said, I think it's an idea that, if used, would require a lot more things behind it to justify the costs.