How Many Ribbons?

[MSG Mac]

The National Uniform Committee met last night, and we considered some items

I think the NUC should reconsider the wear of the Command badge for former Group and Squadron Commanders. I know it was disapproved because of the Command Service Ribbon but I for one perfer to wear badges instead of ribbons. Just a thought ...

Ironically the former National Board exempted themselves when they allowed past NB members to retain the badge. They also allowed themselves to add additional stars on the Command service Ribbon for NB/NEC service. But those of us who were not of the nobility were not allowed to continue wear of the badge. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Upon completion of BMT AF members may have earned 4 ribbons.

I thought it was more than that, with all the GWOT stuff nowadays.

I remember four being possible:

AF Training Ribbon
NDSM
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
BMT Hon Grad

[lordmonar]

Upon completion of BMT AF members may have earned 4 ribbons.

I thought it was more than that, with all the GWOT stuff nowadays.

I remember four being possible:

AF Training Ribbon
NDSM
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
BMT Hon Grad

And the Global War on Terror Service Medal.

So...three for "free" and two they may earn.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

A few quick (1:15 a.m.) thoughts, expanding on/developing from the original question and a few comments:

Command Service Ribbon: Graduated commanders should be allowed to wear the command badge under the nameplate, as is Air Force practice. And the Command Service Ribbon should be abolished. For one, it's far too similar to the Community Service Ribbon to be recognizable. But it's also, generally, redundant. And it seems if you make full colonel in CAP, it's a given that you served as a commander or in a vital national leadership role. It should be authorized for O-6 and under, just as it is (I believe?) for Ma Blue.

Specialty badge overload: Someone on here said we needed more specialty badges. We need fewer. In fact, we need to rethink allowing them in three different places on the uniform -- one does nicely, thank you (I've crudely characterized it as "puking shields all over the uniform"). If we didn't have a badge for every specialty track, and instead had chrome-silver badges for general areas of expertise (communications, for instance, would include public affairs and IT), it would help clean up the uniform greatly. Maybe we pattern them like the Air Force's, and they're worn over the ribbons and under the aeronautical rating. Sure, it'd force a choice of badge, but so be it. Highest badge earned (and this would include the IC and GT badges) could be the mandated "choice," denoting the member's strongest contribution/capability. Since we already have stars on the Leadership Award ribbon for specialty tracks, the specialty track badges we have now are pretty much redundant.

Membership Award and Leadership Award: I'd propose ditching the Membership Award and renaming the Leadership Award. The Membership Award is pretty much given for completing the most elemental and basic training we give our adult members (please, don't call me "senior"), and it doesn't make sense to give a ribbon for meeting the most basic requirements (they are given grade after completion!). And since the Leadership Award really isn't given for leadership but rather for technical training, maybe a more apt name could be accorded.

Red Service Ribbon: Rename it the Longevity Ribbon or Service Ribbon. Since there's no "red," "white" and "blue" service ribbon hierarchy anymore, it's probably time to evolve.

[Eclipse]

Membership Award and Leadership Award: I'd propose ditching the Membership Award and renaming the Leadership Award. The Membership Award is pretty much given for completing the most elemental and basic training we give our adult members (please, don't call me "senior"), and it doesn't make sense to give a ribbon for meeting the most basic requirements (they are given grade after completion!). And since the Leadership Award really isn't given for leadership but rather for technical training, maybe a more apt name could be accorded.

I'd say dump the "leadership" award, use the ribbon for the O'Davis award, and lose the attachments, or at least greatly
reduce them, since the member gets a badge for the rating already.  It also can't keep up for the hard-chargers anyway.
I know of lots of members with long careers who have more then three specialty ratings.

I'd also say we should go to a "highest dec" schema for these (which is an option for seniors already).   If you've got a Garber or a Wilson,
it goes without saying you earned a membership, Leadership, O'Davis, and Loening, to get there.

The reduced ribbons would actually make the decs themselves stand out more. - when I'm reading someones rack, I want to see
the high commendations and the service-based awards.

[SarDragon]

Hey, Bob, it's not O'Davis. It's Benjamin O. (middle initial) Davis. The gentleman does not appear to have significant roots from the British Isles.

[Extremepredjudice]

Hey, Bob, it's not O'Davis. It's Benjamin O. (middle initial) Davis. The gentleman does not appear to have significant roots from the British Isles.

Irish != british. 

I don't believe the irish like being associated with the UK

[Spaceman3750]

Hey, Bob, it's not O'Davis. It's Benjamin O. (middle initial) Davis. The gentleman does not appear to have significant roots from the British Isles.

Irish != british. 

I don't believe the irish like being associated with the UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles It's a geographical reference, they've been calling that area the British Isles since well before Ireland or the UK existed.

[SarDragon]

Hey, Bob, it's not O'Davis. It's Benjamin O. (middle initial) Davis. The gentleman does not appear to have significant roots from the British Isles.

Irish != british. 

I don't believe the irish like being associated with the UK

That was a very carefully chosen reference. I have significant Irish roots, and I'm well aware of all the different land areas involved.

[Private Investigator]

A few quick (1:15 a.m.) thoughts, expanding on/developing from the original question and a few comments:

Command Service Ribbon: Graduated commanders should be allowed to wear the command badge under the nameplate, as is Air Force practice. And the Command Service Ribbon should be abolished. For one, it's far too similar to the Community Service Ribbon to be recognizable. But it's also, generally, redundant. And it seems if you make full colonel in CAP, it's a given that you served as a commander or in a vital national leadership role. It should be authorized for O-6 and under, just as it is (I believe?) for Ma Blue.

Specialty badge overload: Someone on here said we needed more specialty badges. We need fewer. In fact, we need to rethink allowing them in three different places on the uniform -- one does nicely, thank you (I've crudely characterized it as "puking shields all over the uniform"). If we didn't have a badge for every specialty track, and instead had chrome-silver badges for general areas of expertise (communications, for instance, would include public affairs and IT), it would help clean up the uniform greatly. Maybe we pattern them like the Air Force's, and they're worn over the ribbons and under the aeronautical rating. Sure, it'd force a choice of badge, but so be it. Highest badge earned (and this would include the IC and GT badges) could be the mandated "choice," denoting the member's strongest contribution/capability. Since we already have stars on the Leadership Award ribbon for specialty tracks, the specialty track badges we have now are pretty much redundant.

Membership Award and Leadership Award: I'd propose ditching the Membership Award and renaming the Leadership Award. The Membership Award is pretty much given for completing the most elemental and basic training we give our adult members (please, don't call me "senior"), and it doesn't make sense to give a ribbon for meeting the most basic requirements (they are given grade after completion!). And since the Leadership Award really isn't given for leadership but rather for technical training, maybe a more apt name could be accorded.

Red Service Ribbon: Rename it the Longevity Ribbon or Service Ribbon. Since there's no "red," "white" and "blue" service ribbon hierarchy anymore, it's probably time to evolve.

+1 good points indeed sir.

[Private Investigator]

Upon completion of BMT AF members may have earned 4 ribbons.

I thought it was more than that, with all the GWOT stuff nowadays.

I remember four being possible:

AF Training Ribbon
NDSM
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
BMT Hon Grad

FYI, you can not get the GWOT for boot camp or initial training. After you are at your duty assignment you get it.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Membership Award and Leadership Award: I'd propose ditching the Membership Award and renaming the Leadership Award. The Membership Award is pretty much given for completing the most elemental and basic training we give our adult members (please, don't call me "senior"), and it doesn't make sense to give a ribbon for meeting the most basic requirements (they are given grade after completion!). And since the Leadership Award really isn't given for leadership but rather for technical training, maybe a more apt name could be accorded.

I'd say dump the "leadership" award, use the ribbon for the O'Davis award, and lose the attachments, or at least greatly
reduce them, since the member gets a badge for the rating already.  It also can't keep up for the hard-chargers anyway.
I know of lots of members with long careers who have more then three specialty ratings.

I'd also say we should go to a "highest dec" schema for these (which is an option for seniors already).   If you've got a Garber or a Wilson,
it goes without saying you earned a membership, Leadership, O'Davis, and Loening, to get there.

The reduced ribbons would actually make the decs themselves stand out more. - when I'm reading someones rack, I want to see
the high commendations and the service-based awards.

No one said you had to wear them all. If a wearer wants to only wear X number of the highest awards, the person can. (Heck, Gen Merrill McPeak's official photo only shows top three on his service coat!)

I would be against a "highest decoration" scheme because a member's ribbons tell the story of a person's career. Let's say I got my GRW. If we're "highest decoration," I can't wear my Garber with a bronze star attachment because I did the Air Force PME. The Membership Award, on the other hand, is essentially a freebie given for completing CAP orientation.

Your contention that the Leadership Award should be cleared of clasps suggests that you're OK with the proliferation of shield-shaped specialty badges on the uniform. Since they can now be worn in three places (where previously, they could only be worn in one), it creates utter confusion and looks cluttering. The Air Force's mantra is, or was, "clean uniform," and so should ours be. Clasps on the Leadership Award show as many as three specialty tracks; part of what I said earlier was that the highest-rating specialty badge could be worn (if mandated that way). So we eliminate two placements of specialty badges that do nothing but add clutter. It gives wearers room for commander's badges (whether active or graduated) as well as an additional badge (for cadets, model rocketry; for uniformed adults, a military badge or CAP staff badge) below the ribbons. It clarifies for all of us what a member's main specialty is, since that's generally going to be the highest-rated one. Mine would be public affairs (communications if consolidated?), and that's what my job is in CAP, anyway.

So we stack the PME ribbons up like this:
-- Wilson Award
-- Garber Award
-- Loening Award
-- Leadership Award (let's call it a Technical Training Ribbon?) with clasps denoting specialty track progress

And that's it. Level I just loses a ribbon that many members wear upside-down anyway. You might convince me that the Loening Award ribbon also doesn't really serve a function, but that's about it.

[abdsp51]

Some, all or none has been gone from he AF for a long time. 

[Robert Hartigan]

How many ribbons? There are too many ribbons. There is a ribbon for everything nowadays. It is like little league, everyone gets a trophy (certificate) and ribbon for participation.

Cull the herd of redundant ribbons, badges and doodads.

At this point, I would not be surprised if there is a ribbon for not joining, a badge for surviving a 2B attempt, and a clasp for sustained IG investigations.

[NCRblues]

everyone gets a trophy (certificate) and ribbon for participation.

Well, considering we get nothing else...

[Garibaldi]

Having never served AD, I have to ask: do AD officers get a ribbon every time they promote like we do? Do the Reserves/Guard get a ribbon every time they do their 2 week summer duty? Do they get ribbons if they convince their neighbor's kid to join up? Ever since this thread started I have wondered why we get a ribbon for everything except visiting the latrine. Not that I mind; my salad bar is nice with its 11 ribbons and various devices, but it got me wondering if AD/Reserves/Guard got ribbons like we do.

[PHall]

Having never served AD, I have to ask: do AD officers get a ribbon every time they promote like we do? Do the Reserves/Guard get a ribbon every time they do their 2 week summer duty? Do they get ribbons if they convince their neighbor's kid to join up? Ever since this thread started I have wondered why we get a ribbon for everything except visiting the latrine. Not that I mind; my salad bar is nice with its 11 ribbons and various devices, but it got me wondering if AD/Reserves/Guard got ribbons like we do.

No they don't. But there's so many BTDT ribbons these days that just about anybody who does just one deployment can look like a Central American Dictator.

[Critical AOA]

When you get promoted in the military, you get another stripe or different officer insignia and the prestige / respect and reponsibility that go with that.  A feel good colorful ribbon is superfluous.

[davedove]

When you get promoted in the military, you get another stripe or different officer insignia and the prestige / respect and reponsibility that go with that.  A feel good colorful ribbon is superfluous.

And let us not forget the pay raise, something we in CAP do not get.

[johnnyb47]

Point of parlimentary procedure your honor:
(a gold star to anyone who gets the reference)
We don't receive a ribbon for CAP promotions. We earn the PD ribbons for completing the different levels of Senior Member Professional Development.
The promotion still requires TIG and approval after completion of said PD level and is not necessarily guaranteed.
Each level requires training and time.