New senior member uniforms

[Майор Хаткевич]

...Great, keep your polo and enjoy what you can in CAP. But don't be surprised when you DON'T get to do the things that require one. It's a choice and you made it.

And what, exactly, would I not be able to do in CAP that could not be done in either a polo or a blazer?

Ground team? Working with cadets (now that you mention the blazer, the G/W would work). Depending on wing, SLS/CLS/etc.

The polo is no good for most of those.

[Trung Si Ma]

And what, exactly, would I not be able to do in CAP that could not be done in either a polo or a blazer?

Ground team?

You are in a wing that has enough IC's that they can play on a ground team?  Or even get to fly?  Not my experience.

Working with cadets

Can't work with cadets in a polo?  How about an authoritative cite to go with that.

...now that you mention the blazer ...

Mentioned the blazer in the original post - selective reading?

Depending on wing, SLS/CLS/etc.

Did you fail to see the GRW reference in the first post?  If I go to an SLS/CLC/TLC/UCC, I'm teaching.  If the course director doesn't want me there in a blazer or a polo, I go do something else that weekend.

[spacecommand]

The line of speak from some members makes it almost  sound like they believe it's shameful that persons in CAP wear the CAP uniform (whites, blues) with associated ribbons, badges.

It borderlines those "wannabe" comments we hear from others sometimes as well.

[Trung Si Ma]

Which mission, which duty?  And for the record, their are wings where IC's where blues or whites in recognition of their role as a "manager or managers".

Which ones? None of the seven wings that I've been a member of have that requirement.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I just love these arguments.

1.  Spent 20+ years in the Army and got all of the awards, decorations, atta-boys, and other "I be cool" badges that I will ever need.
2.  Was a cadet officer, so I got to wear enough ribbons that I had another cadet follow behind me with a pillow with the ones that didn't fit on the jacket.
3.  Have a very low numbered GRW.
4.  Work in an industry where the "customer" wants to see the fully occupied "I love me" wall whenever they come to visit.

I tell you all of that so that you understand the following:

I WILL NOT WEAR ANOTHER MILITARY STYLE UNIFORM UNLESS I AM AT A FUNERAL FOR A COMRADE - AND THAT WILL BE AN ASU.

For CAP purposes that means a golf shirt or a blazer.  My 101 card is more important than a set of blue or white uniforms and speaks far more highly of my use to CAP than my "uniformity".

Don't want to see me in a golf shirt?  Don't come to someplace where my IC2 credential gets in the way of your ribbons.  Don't ask me to teach at any of your activities if the wearing of the "proper" UOD is more important than the quality of the training.  Don't come to any of the free ground schools or ICS-300/400 classes that I teach.

Clear to me you are showing disdain for the G/Ws.

So lets not try to rewrite what you said. The "blazer" is not a uniform, and it's not a very subtle of saying you do not want to wear the G/Ws either.

[Trung Si Ma]

The line of speak from some members makes it almost  sound like they believe it's shameful that persons in CAP wear the CAP uniform (whites, blues) with associated ribbons, badges.

It borderlines those "wannabe" comments we hear from others sometimes as well.

Never said YOU couldn't play dress up, just said that I won't.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The line of speak from some members makes it almost  sound like they believe it's shameful that persons in CAP wear the CAP uniform (whites, blues) with associated ribbons, badges.

It borderlines those "wannabe" comments we hear from others sometimes as well.

Never said YOU couldn't play dress up, just said that I won't.

And there is that chip on the shoulder. Wouldn't want to serve anywhere NEAR you.

I can respect someone not wanting to wear anything but a polo, but if you don't have enough respect for other members, then I'd simply avoid and ignore you.

P.S. for someone with so much hatred for CAP uniforms, why is it that almost 29% of your posts are in the uniform section?

[Trung Si Ma]

Clear to me you are showing disdain for the G/Ws.

I didn't mention G/W's at all.

The "blazer" is not a uniform

You must have a different copy of CAPM 39-1 than the one posted on the website.  That CAPM 39-1 has a paragraph 4-2.a. where the first two words are "Blazer Uniform", can you send me a copy of the one that says that the blazer is not a uniform?  I so want to be correct.

[Garibaldi]

I met a senior member once right after I moved here to Arkansas. He was wearing a smurf suit and upon learning he'd just retired from the Air Force, I asked him why he wasn't wearing the AF style uniform. He responded in much the same way as Trung: he was tired of wearing it after 20+ years AD. He said in no uncertain terms that there were other uniform options available for seniors in CAP and he was going to exercise all of them.

I don't hold anything against seniors who choose to wear one of the optional uniforms.

But.

I have spent nearly 20 years in CAP, both as a cadet and as a senior. I have seen so many gross violations of 39-1 that I wanted to scream. I also came up in an environment where people not only took pride in their knowledge but also in their appearance. If two people have the same knowledge base in a subject, I am more likely to listen to someone who takes pride in their appearance. That's just the way I was brought up. In college, I had no use for a Ph.D or even a TA who dressed like a hipster with tattoos all over their neck and arms. I don't care how smart they were, I could not take them seriously. It distracted me and I wasn't able to take them seriously. Wear what you want to wear, but wear it with pride.

I know, most of you have a completely diametrical opinion from me. That's fine. I agree with Trung in principle but not in attitude. That's why we have so many uniform combos. I bling out at meetings and conferences. I don't bling out on missions. I try not to bling out during classes. Since I still fall within h/w and grooming standards I will continue to wear the AF-style uniform. Unless I am specifically told that the UOD is G/W or polo shirt, or I am attending a multi-agency meeting where the uniform would be impractical, I will not wear them. My choice.

Having said all that...don't dare tell me that all my shiny and colorful objects are less important to you than my credentials. I earned them in the course of my CAP life. I am as proud of my ribbon rack and my wings and my badges as I am of the reason I wear them. Find me an AD military man or woman who doesn't wear all the ribbons and badges they've EARNED and I'll show you someone who doesn't take his or her career seriously. I'd find it hard to believe someone who completed Jump School wouldn't wear their parachutist wings. Or the soldier who completed Ranger school who wouldn't wear their Ranger Tab. Or the combat vet who wouldn't wear their CIB. I highly doubt that any of these badges, ribbons, or medals were forced upon them. And they have all the experience in the world to back up their wearing of them.

I think I'd take them a little more seriously than I would you in your polo shirt.

[spacecommand]

Some folks have missed the point of the thread.

The thread (read the title and reread the first few  post if you need to), was a new member wondering what uniform combinations a new member should wear.  Posts were made in regards to this.  Then someone posted about just getting the golf shirt.  The regulations state that all members must have the basic minimal CAP uniform (either blues or whites).  This is the basic minimal CAP uniform that there are many who are not aware of because they were told by their leaders when they first join "just buy the golf shirt".

The debate about looking professional, looking casual, which uniform is the best will never end.  So no matter what your opinion maybe, whites, golf shirt, or being naked is the best,  the fact remains, that is the regulation, so it is a disservice to tell new members "just buy the golf shirt", when regulations say the basic minimal uniform is (whites or blues).

[Trung Si Ma]

And there is that chip on the shoulder.

It's not a chip, it's a little cloth strip picked up at Fort Benning.

I can respect someone not wanting to wear anything but a polo, but if you don't have enough respect for other members, then I'd simply avoid and ignore you.

Did I say that you can't play dress up?

Might this whole thing be that I'm fed up with everyone assuming that not wanting to wear a blue uniform means that your are either "fat" or "fuzzy"?

[Trung Si Ma]

The debate about looking professional, looking casual, which uniform is the best will never end.  So no matter what your opinion maybe, whites, golf shirt, or being naked is the best,  the fact remains, that is the regulation, so it is a disservice to tell new members "just buy the golf shirt", when regulations say the basic minimal uniform is (whites or blues).

No disagreement. 

In accordance with the regulation, there is a blue CAP uniform, with all required insignia, folded up in the back of my closet.  It's even tailored to USAF standards (at Maxwell AFB, no less) so that it would look nice if I wanted to wear it.

I'm just not going to wear it.

[Eclipse]

And there is that chip on the shoulder.

It's not a chip, it's a little cloth strip picked up at Fort Benning.

100% irrelevant.

I can respect someone not wanting to wear anything but a polo, but if you don't have enough respect for other members, then I'd simply avoid and ignore you.

Did I say that you can't play dress up?

Might this whole thing be that I'm fed up with everyone assuming that not wanting to wear a blue uniform means that your are either "fat" or "fuzzy"?

No, it clearly shows some chip on your shoulder, or other personal frustration, exasperation, or mental gymnastics.  Whatever - vault
the neurons anyway you want, that's your right, within a specific lane in CAP.

But the comments and inferences that people who do wear the uniform are some how misguided, "less", or have ulterior motives are inappropriate and insulting at best.

Your 101 card is also 100% irrelevant in this discussion.

[Garibaldi]

For once, I am in complete agreement with Eclipse. Satan called and asked me to bring my ice skates and a chipper.

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's not a chip, it's a little cloth strip picked up at Fort Benning.

Oh look! Somehow some Army thing is somehow somewhere relevant to CAP!

Did I say that you can't play dress up?

You're making my points for me.

Might this whole thing be that I'm fed up with everyone assuming that not wanting to wear a blue uniform means that your are either "fat" or "fuzzy"?

YOU make this about the Blues. Everyone else is making this about the Polos (and how lacking they are).

For the record, I wear BBDUs and G/Ws, so the fact that you jump on the blues right away just shows that YOU are the one with the problem, not everyone else.

[Trung Si Ma]

100% irrelevant.

To you.[/quote]

No, it clearly shows some chip on your shoulder, or other personal frustration, exasperation, or mental gymnastics. 

You opinion

Your 101 card is also 100% irrelevant in this discussion.

You brought up IC's in blues, not I

[Trung Si Ma]

YOU make this about the Blues. Everyone else is making this about the Polos (and how lacking they are).

Reverse side of the argument.  If polos are bad, and they are an alternate to blues, than blues must be good.

[Майор Хаткевич]

To you.

To CAP.

You opinion

And that of others.

Your 101 card is also 100% irrelevant in this discussion.

You brought up IC's in blues, not I

For CAP purposes that means a golf shirt or a blazer.  My 101 card is more important than a set of blue or white uniforms and speaks far more highly of my use to CAP than my "uniformity".

[Майор Хаткевич]

YOU make this about the Blues. Everyone else is making this about the Polos (and how lacking they are).

Reverse side of the argument.  If polos are bad, and they are an alternate to blues, than blues must be good.

In what world are Polos an alternative?

[tsrup]

Trung, you just don't get it.  To many on here, CAP is all about wearing the uniform and all of its associated bling.  The mission and the requisite knowledge and qualifications come second, at best.  The more shiny and colorful objects they can pin on their chest, the higher feeling of self-worth and importance they feel.  Do not try to take that away from them.  They will be crushed.

Ah, but I do get it.

As Jean Larteguy said in the classic book "The Centurians" ...


        "I'd like to have two armies: one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, fanfares, staffs, distinguished and doddering generals, and dear little regimental officers who would be deeply concerned over their general's bowel movements or their colonel's piles:  an army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country.

        The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflaged battle dress, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught.  That's the army in which I should like to fight."

Guess which one wears blues.

This harkens to an (incorrect) assumption that wearing a uniform properly and being exceptional at the mission are mutually exclusive.

Those that use this argument generally use this idea as a crutch for sloppy and unprofessional appearances. 


Oh and the slings about playing dress up are done by people who clearly don't understand the significance of the duties that CAP does.  It is not the AF's uniform, it is OUR uniform.  Take some pride in the organization and the impact it has in our nation. 

If you think all CAP is is a method for people to play dress-up than maybe you need to reevaluate why you commit so much time to the program.

I have no problem with members who wear the polo, but the sweeping insinuations you are making about the people who dont are completely and utterly without merit.