New senior member uniforms

[abdsp51]

The golf shirt has it's perks to a degree but however is not the minimum uniform required for SMs.  Here in CA Wg for some things like PD courses it's either blues or grey/white.  I will give the polo points for being something simple and easy but hardly proper for some aspects IMHO.  One thing I have seen is that cadets and SMs do not dive into the basic regs that they should know. 

[davedove]

The real problem still goes back to the wide variety of uniforms and everyone wearing a different one.

The golf shirt really doesn't look that bad when worn right.  In fact, I have been to events where every senior member had on the golf shirt uniform and it looked pretty good, because we were uniform.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I honestly don't know Why the Polo uniform exists, it's not a "uniform" uniform. So many different styles can come out of it.

But Yes, if worn right, it can look good. But it doesn't look good when half of the membership has gotten the required u information and half has gone the bare minimum they can, didn't follow regulations, and just get the polo, and the other half is wearing blues or BDUs. It can make the Polo wearers look unprofessional, or it makes the blues and BDU wearers look over dressed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have yet to see gray pants on two people that match.

[Sapper168]

I personally do not understand why CAP equates the polo/golf shirt to anything other than the Air force Informal Uniform.  Makes no sense to me when Ma Blue has what is basically an identical uniform why we would equate it to any type of blues combo.

[tsrup]

I personally do not understand why CAP equates the polo/golf shirt to anything other than the Air force Informal Uniform.  Makes no sense to me when Ma Blue has what is basically an identical uniform why we would equate it to any type of blues combo.

Because we are not authorized the Air force Informal Uniform.

The chart is presented to equate CAP corporate uniforms to CAP AF-style uniforms.


That said, there is no universe where the polo combination equals even the short sleeve blues or the aviator whites.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

That said, there is no universe where the polo combination equals even the short sleeve blues or the aviator whites.

You can wish this all you want. As a squadron commander you can say the UOD is either AF Blues or G/W.

If you don't say anything or, as some people do just say UOD is AF Blues and forget to mention an option for those prohibited to wear AF Blues then by our regulations the Polo works. G/W as  the basic uniform does not exclude other options listed in 39-1.

So let's say Lt Bag O'Dounuts learns of a SLS 3 hours away. He signs up, schedules a vacation day, and gets a notice that the UOD is AF Blues (no other options listed). Being a good senior member and knowing he can't wear that uniform he looks at the table listed earlier and decides to wear his polo shirt. He drives 3 hours and is refused admittance by the course director and is rightfully mad as heck and isn't going to take it anymore. Now some lucky IG gets a complaint.

Could Lt O'Dounuts have requested clarification? Sure, but he made an honest attempt to comply with the course director's instructions and CAP Regulations.

Could the course director have communicated the information more clearly or handled the situation better?  I think so.

Do I agree that the Polo is equal to the AF Blues? No, but that's what the book says. The same book says you can modify this rule, but if you don't the rule stands. So in the default CAP Universe, "the polo combination equals the short sleeve blues or the aviator whites."

[Eclipse]

 ^ These situations tend to be self-limiting.

If members want to ignore common sense, or fall back on an interpretation that may be factually correct, but is practically
silly, so be it.  Everyone makes mistakes, or is too new to know it's a mistake, but there's plenty more who just willfully
do as they please to the detriment of the organization and themselves.

Once or twice people will be standing in a room with people dressed more formally, show up in photos looking bedraggled, etc.,
and they'll either clarify the next time, or disengage.

Either works.

[LGM30GMCC]

And of course if the SLS director says 'Minimum Service Uniform' and Lt Bagodonuts wears the polo shirt and is turned away, Lt Bagodonuts is now SOL.

By the way...if Lt Bagodonuts were to file an IG complaint over the 'turned away' scenario, I'm betting it would be referred to the appropriate commander. Worst case the SLS director is likely to get a 'Hey, technically he was correct, so be more clear next time.'

[BigShu]

Wow, now I feel like a dope! I thought the polo was a good compromise, and that's the most common apparel at meetings. I should have gotten an aviator shirt on the way first thing. That said, how do we fix the gray pants not matching problem? It's easy with the AF style uniforms, but unless SM's get pointed to a single source for grey slacks, they'll be all over the map. I don't care how carefully you pour over the regs, if it says nothing more than grey pants or slacks, there will never be uniformity.

[spacecommand]

It is supposed to be "medium gray"

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/946/~/color-of-the-gray-slacks%2Ftrousers

Shades of gray:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/204/0/filename/Med_gray-chart.htm

[Sapper168]

Que the 'Knowledgebase' isnt an official or correct source comments....

[spacecommand]

Yes, but if you read the knowledgebase link, it quotes the relevant passages in 39-1 stating "medium gray".

See below from CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual 23 Mar 2005

Table 4-2. Men's CAP Blazer Uniform
Trousers Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.

Table 4-3. Women's CAP Blazer Uniform
Slacks Commercial dress slacks of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. (No jeans or casual slacks made with cotton or twill fabric.) Slacks should fit naturally over the hip with no bunching at waist or bagging at seat; bottom front of slack leg rests on the front of shoe or boot with a slight break in the crease.

Skirt Straight or A-line. Commercial medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend. Pleated skirts or skirts with slits in the front or side are not authorized. Skirt length will be no shorter than the top of the kneecap nor longer than the bottom of the kneecap. Skirt should hang naturally over the hips with a slight flare.

[AngelWings]

We should wear kilts with the greys! 

[abdsp51]

We should wear kilts with the greys! 

Must be grey.

[RogueLeader]

And of course if the SLS director says 'Minimum Service Uniform' and Lt Bagodonuts wears the polo shirt and is turned away, Lt Bagodonuts is now SOL.

By the way...if Lt Bagodonuts were to file an IG complaint over the 'turned away' scenario, I'm betting it would be referred to the appropriate commander. Worst case the SLS director is likely to get a 'Hey, technically he was correct, so be more clear next time.'

I disagree.  MSU is MSU and no other.  Had it said AF Blues or equivalent, then the LT would have been correct.  You know as well as I do that MSU is only G/W or AF Blues and NO OTHER UNIFORM.

[Garibaldi]

We should wear kilts with the greys! 

tiger-stripe grey kilts.

[Eclipse]

And of course if the SLS director says 'Minimum Service Uniform' and Lt Bagodonuts wears the polo shirt and is turned away, Lt Bagodonuts is now SOL.

By the way...if Lt Bagodonuts were to file an IG complaint over the 'turned away' scenario, I'm betting it would be referred to the appropriate commander. Worst case the SLS director is likely to get a 'Hey, technically he was correct, so be more clear next time.'

I disagree.  MSU is MSU and no other.  Had it said AF Blues or equivalent, then the LT would have been correct.  You know as well as I do that MSU is only G/W or AF Blues and NO OTHER UNIFORM.

Agree - not to mention the fact that no one outside CAPTalk is ever going to use that term for a UOD posting.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have never seen the UOD specified as the golf shirt.  I'd be SOL as I don't own one.

[Garibaldi]

Sort of on-topic...last night my Wing CC, who also sits on the Uniform Board, visited our unit. He was wearing the new tactical pants we've been talking about for the last couple weeks. They look pretty good, although I probably would have chosen a different color than charcoal gray. They are Propper, available from bdu.com. You can wear them with the golf shirt.

Other things he talked about:

ABUs: forget it. Not going to happen for at least another 2-3 years.
Tennis shoes in uniform: No. He didn't mention waivers for anything.
Uniform combinations: He basically said that the profusion of member-combos is going to have to stop. Blues shirts with grey slacks, white aviator shirts with blues slacks or other unauthorized pants, tennis shoes with BDUs...all going to have to be fixed.
Specialty hats for ES: At least in ARWG, no. We have a choice of the new ARWG baseball hat or the regulation BDU/BBDU hat. YMMV in your wing. The argument is that we'd have specialty shirts and hats for everything and he is all about uniformity, which I wholeheartedly agree with.