New senior member uniforms

[Eclipse]

No - you would normally wear just the buttons that come on the coat, same with the USAF-Style service coat, you don't change those buttons, either - you wear the standard USAF Hap Arnold buttons.

As to your upcoming conferences, civilian business attire is normally just as acceptable

[BigShu]

While we're talking about distinctive uniforms, I hear a lot of references to "fat and fuzzy" or "heavy and hairy". I'm not hairy, but I'm a little heavy. I'm working on that, because I think it makes sense to be fit for duty. But even while fat, anyone can avoid fuzzy. Whats the rationale for relaxed grooming standards? Isn't it important to the missions to carry ourselves as professionally as possible?

[BigShu]

That's interesting about the buttons, why does Vanguard carry such a selection? Did anyone like the smurf suit flight suit? How about the ultramarine light weight jacket? Is it nasty, or does anyone wear them? Are items still for sale by Vanguard all still regulation?

[Extremepredjudice]

Are items still for sale by Vanguard all still regulation?

NO. They sell a bunch of stuff that isn't authorized.

[umpirecali]

While we're talking about distinctive uniforms, I hear a lot of references to "fat and fuzzy" or "heavy and hairy". I'm not hairy, but I'm a little heavy. I'm working on that, because I think it makes sense to be fit for duty. But even while fat, anyone can avoid fuzzy. Whats the rationale for relaxed grooming standards? Isn't it important to the missions to carry ourselves as professionally as possible?

Some people can have a full beard and look professional but be out of grooming standards.  I don't think hairy=messy (my dad had full beard for 35 years and is an executive in his company), it's just a personal preference that carries with it the inability to wear a military style uniform.

[SarDragon]

Are items still for sale by Vanguard all still regulation?

NO. They sell a bunch of stuff that isn't authorized.

Lighten up, Francis!

At some indeterminate time in the past, the blazer available from The Bookstore/CAP Mart had CAP buttons on it, and the buttons were available for use on other blazers. When I get my new blazer, I'm considering changing the buttons.

Vanguard doesn't make the rues, they just sell stuff. Much of this stuff was just turned over from the previous seller, likely without much explanation. It's in the inventory; they sell it.

[spacecommand]

Vandy's Easy Uniform Guide for New Senior Members.

1.  Buy golf shirt from Vanguard.

2. Check closet for suitable grey pants.  If none found go to local store.

3. Check closet for suitable black shoes.  If none found go to local store.

4.  Check closet for black belt.  If none found go to local store.

5.  Check dresser for dark socks. If none found go to local store.

6. Get dressed.

Except members are supposed to equip themselves with the basic minimum CAP uniform (either AF style or corporate).  On the corporate end, the basic minimum CAP uniform is the short sleeve white aviator shirt with nametag (for senior members without grade) and grey trousers and black belt.  Contrary to some popular belief, the golf shirt is not the basic minimum CAP uniform. 

This combination isn't too difficult to get, and the nametag can be used on the light sleeve blues in the future. 

The cost isn't that much different than getting a golf shirt or embroidered golf shirt.
Also, the white aviator shirt makes for a bit more professional look especially when attending squadron awards/promotions, group/wing/national level courses.   I've been to many courses SLS, CLC, and other Wing related functions, and the wear of the golf shirt tends to be discouraged (though not specifically prohibited), and predominately at Conferences (at least from the ones I've been to) you will see either white aviator shirt, blazer, or blues as the main uniform worn by many seniors at conferences. 

Not to say there aren't folks with polos at Wing/Region conferences (your wing conference could be completely different from the ones I've been to), they are just fewer in number compared to white or blues at the wing and national ones I've been to.

If you are attending the Wing Conference and there's an award luncheon going on, a nice civilian suit works out better than a golf shirt if you don't have the blazer uniform or white aviator uniform yet.  If there's a dinner banquet, a nice civilian suit or blazer combo works better than the white aviator shirt by itself and much better than the polo in my opinion.

[SarDragon]

Our conference (CAWG) has a UoD, and golf shirts are generally not permitted for most of the functions.

[Private Investigator]

Vandy's Easy Uniform Guide for New Senior Members.

1.  Buy golf shirt from Vanguard.

2. Check closet for suitable grey pants.  If none found go to local store.

3. Check closet for suitable black shoes.  If none found go to local store.

4.  Check closet for black belt.  If none found go to local store.

5.  Check dresser for dark socks. If none found go to local store.

6. Get dressed.

+1

Every Squadron is different. If it is a Senior Squadron and everyone wears a polo just go with the polo until you have been in a few years.

[spacecommand]

When I first joined my unit, many folks just wore the golf shirt because they assumed or was told by someone before that it was the basic minimal uniform required (again it is not), "just go buy the golf shirt" was common when asked about uniforms.  Courses like SLS, CLC, Wing conferences or even local promotions and awards night would pop up and they would say "all I got is the golf shirt" and scramble to get a white aviator shirt combo.  Things are a bit different these days.  For me, I virtually never wear the golf shirt and when I am not in one of the AF style uniforms I will wear white and grays to meetings.

[Critical AOA]

To me the operative phrase in this discussion is "new member".   In my mind the most important things that need to be done with new members are
1.   Not to discourage them
2.   Make them comfortable and feel like they fit in. 

Expecting a new member to buy more expensive uniform variants can discourage. 

Buying and wearing the same uniform that the majority of members wear to the meetings makes them feel comfortable and that they fit in.  At the two squadrons I have been members of the golf shirt has been the de facto uniform at regular meetings, exercises and flying.  Why expect a new member to buy something else instead?

Besides, most new members do not attend many if any functions that require anything more than the golf shirt in the first several months or year of their CAP existence.

I attended SLS in CA.  Attendees were wearing the golf shirt, white aviator, BDUs and blues.  There was more or less an equal mix and I recall the golf shirt being in the middle range of the number of uniforms, not the majority nor the minority.  I wore the golf shirt and felt fine.

I attended CLC in AR.  Attendees were wearing the golf shirt, white aviator, BDUs but no blues.  Golf shirts were predominant.  I wore the golf shirt and felt fine.

I attended the CAWG conference.  At the seminars / classes, attendees were wearing the golf shirt, white aviator, BDUs and blues.  There was more or less an equal mix though I recall the golf shirt being the average.  I wore the golf shirt and felt fine.  At the banquet, attendees wore dress blues, blazers, regular blues, civilian suits and there were a few white aviator shirts.   I wore the aviator as that is my 39-1 basic uniform that some here like to harp about.  Were the few of us in that uniform a bit conspicuous?  Perhaps, but who cares.

I have now been back in CAP as a senior member for a little over three years and that single wing conference would have been the only occasion that I might have been better off with one of the other dressier uniforms.  Sorry but it is not worth the extra money.

Now I realize that some folks like to dress up and look spiffy in their blues with all the ribbons, badges and other shiny trimmings and if you want to do that, great.  But for day to day operations and activities, it makes no sense.  This is especially true for new members.

[tsrup]

Buying and wearing the same uniform that the majority of members wear to the meetings makes them feel comfortable and that they fit in.  At the two squadrons I have been members of the golf shirt has been the de facto uniform at regular meetings, exercises and flying.  Why expect a new member to buy something else instead?

Because the regulation requires a minimum of the short sleeve blues or aviator whites.


Any commander that does not make this clear to new members is doing that new member a disservice. 
Not to mention we have established quite a few times that the aviator whites can be just as cheap if not cheaper than the polo, so it is not a price issue.

[RogueLeader]

Expecting a new member to buy more expensive uniform variants can discourage. 

It can, but doesn't have too.  All it takes is during the "interview" process when costs come up (it always has in my 8 years but YMMV) is mentioning the costs of the uniform that they are required to equip themselves with.  A little forethought can, and usually does save that discouragement. 

Encouraging a new member to buy a non-mandatory uniform then a mandatory uniform is a whole lot more discouraging by increasing the costs unnecessarily, IMHO.

[denverpilot]

While we're talking about distinctive uniforms, I hear a lot of references to "fat and fuzzy" or "heavy and hairy". I'm not hairy, but I'm a little heavy. I'm working on that, because I think it makes sense to be fit for duty. But even while fat, anyone can avoid fuzzy. Whats the rationale for relaxed grooming standards? Isn't it important to the missions to carry ourselves as professionally as possible?

Some of the smartest and most professional people I know in my day job are male and have heavy beards or even pony-tails.

Do not mistake professional for shaven. People do it regularly to one person I know, and I swear he keeps the beard just to find out who's on the left side of the bell curve when they meet him.

If he were even slightly interested in Aviation, it would be fun to have him join CAP and watch him intellectually body-slam a few folks who're hung up on shaven faces.

We aren't wearing pressure-breathing O2 masks in our Cessnas.

[Critical AOA]

 US military history is chock full of great men with beards and long bushy mustaches.  The no facial hair for the military is a modern concept partially brought on by the use of gas masks as well as a mistaken belief that having everyone look the same was a good thing and added to professionalism. That of course is quite a silly concept.   Of course, they now allow military members who claim certain religious beliefs such as Sikh to have beards but a normal person is not allowed to.  That sort of discrimination goes against everything the US and the US military stand for.

[tsrup]

US military history is chock full of great men with beards and long bushy mustaches.  The no facial hair for the military is a modern concept partially brought on by the use of gas masks as well as a mistaken belief that having everyone look the same was a good thing and added to professionalism. That of course is quite a silly concept.   Of course, they now allow military members who claim certain religious beliefs such as Sikh to have beards but a normal person is not allowed to.  That sort of discrimination goes against everything the US and the US military stand for.

They allow women to have long hair, painted nails, and earrings.

Seems to me it makes more sense to allow a beard based on religion than it does to allow the above based on fashion.

YMMV but I see it as a non-issue.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Of course, they now allow military members who claim certain religious beliefs such as Sikh to have beards but a normal person is not allowed to.  That sort of discrimination goes against everything the US and the US military stand for.

So being a Sikh or for that matter sporting a beard makes one "abnormal?"

Be careful when you type.

Sikhs are as normal as people that believe in God and Jesus. And people that believe in Allah, and Yehova. They are as normal even as those that do not believe in anything!

Flyer

[JeffDG]

Of course, they now allow military members who claim certain religious beliefs such as Sikh to have beards but a normal person is not allowed to.  That sort of discrimination goes against everything the US and the US military stand for.

So being a Sikh or for that matter sporting a beard makes one "abnormal?"

Be careful when you type.

Sikhs are as normal as people that believe in God and Jesus. And people that believe in Allah, and Yehova. They are as normal even as those that do not believe in anything!

Flyer

Whoa there, let's not jump to conclusions.

I think he was commenting on the fact that the rules are different for one group, based on religious belief, not commenting on the "normality" of that specific belief.  It may have been inartfully phrased, but I wouldn't impart sinister motives to the poster based just on what he said.

[SarDragon]

US military history is chock full of great men with beards and long bushy mustaches.  The no facial hair for the military is a modern concept partially brought on by the use of gas masks as well as a mistaken belief that having everyone look the same was a good thing and added to professionalism. That of course is quite a silly concept.   Of course, they now allow military members who claim certain religious beliefs such as Sikh to have beards but a normal person is not allowed to.  That sort of discrimination goes against everything the US and the US military stand for.

I'm speaking primarily from a Navy PoV, but there were two reasons for banning them in 1985: 1) safety issues - there were too many instances where a beard would impair effective functioning of safety equipment (primarily breathing gear), and 2) appearance issues - there were too many 20-something guys growing "beards" that were nothing but three or four randomly scattered patches of hair that presented an unacceptable appearance. Rather than mess with the "cans" and "can'ts", they got rid of beards altogether.

I had a beard for about half of my time in the Navy, and it was always well kept and within regs.

It a matter of practicality. There is no room for beards in the modern military. Those folks who are permitted to wear them have limited assignment opportunities.

[abdsp51]

At least we have uniforms for members who can't/won't meet height and weight or grooming standards to wear the AF style uniform.  The US military was not the only military to adopt shaving.  And that has more to do with hygene and sanitary reasons than anything else.