ES/Ground Team can wear whatever in the field?

[AngelWings]

I have still yet to see something from NHQ that we do in fact have to have ANSI 2 vests.

I would support that ES teams should be as uniform as possible....and if that means mandateing "this vest" over all others....whether it has CAP on it or not.........I would support that.

Likewise I would support mandating a "universal head gear".......a hunter orange boonie cap.....for all ground operations....in liue of a ANSI vests.....as the whole vest concept gets pretty stupid when you put on your back pack/LBV/Cammel back over the stupid vest.  Also I find that even open weave vests make it very hot and get in the way of using and getting to your equipment.

Actually it's likely a safety violation IF the equipment covers the vest from being seen on someone's back.  The purpose of the vest is to ensure high visibility, primary on highways, but during hunting season one would also need this to be visible in order to ensure individual safety.   Maybe someone could come up with a simple orange cloth/plastic material with reflective material that could be easily placed on the back/camel pack, perhaps with velcro type fastener

I also like the idea of the orange boonie hat (and orange watch cap for winter) BUT I would add the requirement for the CAP Emergency Services patch (e.g. the Dog one) also be placed on the front of the hat) to ensure identification of Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services.

BTW it appears that Vanguard might be out of stock on the Orange vest with the CAP on it.

RM     

A PT belt wrapped around some part of the bag does the trick and even makes some of the people who want to keep a military appearence happy because it is something done in the military sometimes (which I've seen personally on multiple bases).

[lordmonar]

I have still yet to see something from NHQ that we do in fact have to have ANSI 2 vests.

Only required when working on or near a Federal Highway today, required by Oct 2012 for all.

Though considering that the below asserts a sundown on a uniform item and will require
some expenditure by all affected members, NHQ hasn't really made much about it.  Perhaps it
was assumed back in June 2010 / March 2011 that we'd have a consolidated, current uniform
reg by Oct 2012 (maybe we will).

CAPR 62-1 March 2011

d. ANSI and non-ANSI compliance standards are as follows:
is approved for wear as the outermost garment over the corporate
uniform only and must meet ANSI Class 2 or 3 standards as noted on the ANSI classification tag
which must be affixed to the garment.  Examples of safety apparel are coats, jackets, rainwear,
and may include orange or lime green reflective pants in conjunction with upper-body wear.

(1) ANSI compliant  – Safety Vests or Safety Apparel must meet the American
National Standards Institute, Inc (ANSI) Class 2 or Class 3 requirements.  This category is
required anytime a  member's duties may place them within the right-of-way of Federal-aid
highways; such as directing traffic, investigating crashes, handling lane closures, obstructed
roadways, and disasters within the right-of-way of a Federal-aid highway.

(2) Non-ANSI compliant  – Safety Vests only, require reflectivity front and back. 
This category is allowed anytime a member's duties do not require ANSI compliant vests in
accordance with the definition of ANSI compliant requirements above.  By October 1, 2012, all
safety vests and safety apparel will be required to meet ANSI Class 2 or 3 visibility and
reflectivity standards.

e. Members working in an official capacity are authorized to wear ANSI Class 2 or 3
safety vests or safety apparel with the mission position duty title logoed on their safety vests or
safety apparel to ensure  position  identity during CAP sponsored  events.  Additionally, during
non-mission related activities the  Safety officers working in an official safety capacity are
authorized to wear ANSI Class 2 or 3 safety vests or safety apparel with the words "safety" or
"safety officer" logoed on their safety vests or safety apparel to ensure identity during CAP
sponsored events. 

Do you know that that is the dumbest written regulation I have read in a long while.

Problems:
a) It does NOT mandate ANSI 2 safey vests and/or apperal....only orange or lime safety gear.
b) It allows VESTS only for USAF style uniforms but Vests and/or Apperal for corporates....nice standadisation.
c) Someone needs to show NHQ how to properly outline a paragraph!  That [darn] thing jumps back and forth something awful.
d) Everyone needs to have a safey vest......if you do anything outside at night.

[/rant]

[Eclipse]

Do you know that that is the dumbest written regulation I have read in a long while.
Problems:
a) It does NOT mandate ANSI 2 safey vests and/or apperal....only orange or lime safety gear.
b) It allows VESTS only for USAF style uniforms but Vests and/or Apperal for corporates....nice standadisation.
c) Someone needs to show NHQ how to properly outline a paragraph!  That [darn] thing jumps back and forth something awful.
d) Everyone needs to have a safey vest......if you do anything outside at night.

[/rant]

You should really re-read that.  It's pretty clear that ANSI II is the mandate.  The colors are
examples, not prescriptions.

And there's no standardization today, so why would there be going forward.  The corporate
relaxation of the standard is to allow people with better gear to wear it - say a dark blue rain jacket
reversible to yellow, etc.  Silly to wear an absorbent vest if you have a waterproof jacket, or a
vest over a bright yellow jacket.

I agree it should just say "wear x", but in our existing labyrinth of uniforms, not to mention
military specs, that's near impossible.

[RADIOMAN015]

I have still yet to see something from NHQ that we do in fact have to have ANSI 2 vests.

Only required when working on or near a Federal Highway today, required by Oct 2012 for all.

Though considering that the below asserts a sundown on a uniform item and will require
some expenditure by all affected members, NHQ hasn't really made much about it.  Perhaps it
was assumed back in June 2010 / March 2011 that we'd have a consolidated, current uniform
reg by Oct 2012 (maybe we will).

CAPR 62-1 March 2011
....snip..snip..snp
(2) Non-ANSI compliant  – Safety Vests only, require reflectivity front and back. 
This category is allowed anytime a member's duties do not require ANSI compliant vests in
accordance with the definition of ANSI compliant requirements above.  By October 1, 2012, all
safety vests and safety apparel will be required to meet ANSI Class 2 or 3 visibility and
reflectivity standards.

[/i]

Do you know that that is the dumbest written regulation I have read in a long while.

Problems:
a) It does NOT mandate ANSI 2 safey vests and/or apperal....only orange or lime safety gear.
b) It allows VESTS only for USAF style uniforms but Vests and/or Apperal for corporates....nice standadisation.
c) Someone needs to show NHQ how to properly outline a paragraph!  That [darn] thing jumps back and forth something awful.
d) Everyone needs to have a safey vest......if you do anything outside at night.

[/rant]

Actually my wing safety officer sent all of us an email this week from the region safety officer that state 10/1/2012 all vests must be ANSI 2 standards compliant.

RM

[RogueLeader]

I do NOT want either es patch on any part of my uniform or equipment. I can not stand how goofy (no pun intended) it looks.  A cap tape will go a whole lot farther in identifying us than a es patch.

[lordmonar]

Do you know that that is the dumbest written regulation I have read in a long while.
Problems:
a) It does NOT mandate ANSI 2 safey vests and/or apperal....only orange or lime safety gear.
b) It allows VESTS only for USAF style uniforms but Vests and/or Apperal for corporates....nice standadisation.
c) Someone needs to show NHQ how to properly outline a paragraph!  That [darn] thing jumps back and forth something awful.
d) Everyone needs to have a safey vest......if you do anything outside at night.

[/rant]

You should really re-read that.  It's pretty clear that ANSI II is the mandate.  The colors are
examples, not prescriptions.

And there's no standardization today, so why would there be going forward.  The corporate
relaxation of the standard is to allow people with better gear to wear it - say a dark blue rain jacket
reversible to yellow, etc.  Silly to wear an absorbent vest if you have a waterproof jacket, or a
vest over a bright yellow jacket.

I agree it should just say "wear x", but in our existing labyrinth of uniforms, not to mention
military specs, that's near impossible.

7. Personal Protective Equipment
a. Every CAP member will wear appropriate safety vests or safety apparel as outlined below when participating in CAP ground functions during all times, day or night. Safety vests or safety apparel may be orange or lime green and may be worn with or without the CAP logo. Examples of applicable ground functions are, but not limited to:
(1) All outdoor ground functions of emergency services.
(2) This guidance applies to formations only to the degree determined necessary to maintain formation visibility to traffic. Road guards or safety spotters should be utilized to safely warn traffic of formation movements.
(3) All individuals performing volunteer activities who are exposed to traffic hazards, including flight line support. The exception to this is for flight crews in transit between operations/flight planning and the aircraft, and while performing duties within the shadow of their aircraft (i.e., performing pre-flight or post-flight tasks).
(4) At all times during night in unlighted areas of operation when outside of vehicles or facilities while participating in any ground activity.
(5) Outdoor field activities where exposure to hunting or recreational use of weapons could be encountered.
b. Safety vests
c. Safety are approved for wear over the outermost garment of AF-style uniform or corporate uniform and may or may not be ANSI compliant as defined in paragraph 7d below. apparel
d. ANSI and non-ANSI compliance standards are as follows: is approved for wear as the outermost garment over the corporate uniform only and must meet ANSI Class 2 or 3 standards as noted on the ANSI classification tag which must be affixed to the garment. Examples of safety apparel are coats, jackets, rainwear, and may include orange or lime green reflective pants in conjunction with upper-body wear.
(1) ANSI compliant – Safety Vests or Safety Apparel must meet the American National Standards Institute, Inc (ANSI) Class 2 or Class 3 requirements. This category is required anytime a member's duties may place them within the right-of-way of Federal-aid highways; such as directing traffic, investigating crashes, handling lane closures, obstructed roadways, and disasters within the right-of-way of a Federal-aid highway.
(2) Non-ANSI compliant – Safety Vests only, require reflectivity front and back. This category is allowed anytime a member's duties do not require ANSI compliant vests in accordance with the definition of ANSI compliant requirements above. By October 1, 2012, all safety vests and safety apparel will be required to meet ANSI Class 2 or 3 visibility and reflectivity standards.
e. Members working in an official capacity are authorized to wear ANSI Class 2 or 3 safety vests or safety apparel with the mission position duty title logoed on their safety vests or safety apparel to ensure position identity during CAP sponsored events. Additionally, during non-mission related activities the Safety officers working in an official safety capacity are authorized to wear ANSI Class 2 or 3 safety vests or safety apparel with the words "safety" or "safety officer" logoed on their safety vests or safety apparel to ensure identity during CAP sponsored events.
f. Members of CAP may be exposed to environments with elevated sound levels both in duration and/or decibel intensity (for example, 85 dB at 10 minutes duration). CAP members should wear appropriate hearing protection to reduce exposure. See tables 2 – 5, for examples.

Okay.....like I said......this is one of the worse written regulations I have ever read!

I'm a pretty smart guy......if you have to hunt for the information...that is what we call a bad thing!  Why the hell is a major chain to at least three bloody paragraphs stuck to to the end of the definition of what a NON-ANSI vest is!  FSM!  I hate CAP safety!
[/rant]

[Eclipse]

Okay.....like I said......this is one of the worse written regulations I have ever read!

I'm a pretty smart guy......if you have to hunt for the information...that is what we call a bad thing!  Why the hell is a major chain to at least three bloody paragraphs stuck to to the end of the definition of what a NON-ANSI vest is!  FSM!  I hate CAP safety!
[/rant]

I won't disagree, but I had posted the exact thing the first time around, it's also the first thing that comes up if you enter the
word ANSI in the KB.

[SarDragon]

I have still yet to see something from NHQ that we do in fact have to have ANSI 2 vests.

I would support that ES teams should be as uniform as possible....and if that means mandateing "this vest" over all others....whether it has CAP on it or not.........I would support that.

Likewise I would support mandating a "universal head gear".......a hunter orange boonie cap.....for all ground operations....in liue of a ANSI vests.....as the whole vest concept gets pretty stupid when you put on your back pack/LBV/Cammel back over the stupid vest.  Also I find that even open weave vests make it very hot and get in the way of using and getting to your equipment.

Actually it's likely a safety violation IF the equipment covers the vest from being seen on someone's back.  The purpose of the vest is to ensure high visibility, primary on highways, but during hunting season one would also need this to be visible in order to ensure individual safety.   Maybe someone could come up with a simple orange cloth/plastic material with reflective material that could be easily placed on the back/camel pack, perhaps with Velcro type fastener

I also like the idea of the orange boonie hat (and orange watch cap for winter) BUT I would add the requirement for the CAP Emergency Services patch (e.g. the Dog one) also be placed on the front of the hat) to ensure identification of Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services.

BTW it appears that Vanguard might be out of stock on the Orange vest with the CAP on it.

RM     

Easy. Buy a cheapie vest, chop it up, and attach as appropriate.