Senior Officers uncomfortable in Air Force skin?

[SARDOC]

However how can you get past the plain, simple wording:"senior members not meeting weight and grooming standards may wear CAP distinctive uniforms or civilian attire as befits the occasion"?  Just asking.[/color]

Since you quote this so often as the acceptance that Uniforms are not always required...Would you also agree that this only applies to members who don't meet weight and grooming standards?  And that is not intended for routine functions as the minimum uniforms meet the needs of most occasions as cited in 39-1?

[SARDOC]

That was not an answer to the question asked. So I may take it that you have not done a single IF.

did you mean FI?

[RogueLeader]

Darn autocorrect. IG.

[Hardshell Clam]

However how can you get past the plain, simple wording:"senior members not meeting weight and grooming standards may wear CAP distinctive uniforms or civilian attire as befits the occasion"?  Just asking.[/color]

no getting around it. There is a list of AD style and a corresponding list of corporate uniforms. That line that you use to justify not wearing a uniform is to cover the gaps such as the Mess Dress.

Nowhere could I find where it speak of the mess dress uniform as it relates to "senior members not meeting weight and grooming standards may wear CAP distinctive uniforms or civilian attire as befits the occasion." I could not even find any reference to the mess dress anywhere on the page. Can you cite a page & paragraph where it says this, or is this how you interrupt it?

Sorry, IMHO as much as you may want it so, two sources (the regs and an pamphlet officially issued by the CAP Nat' HQ) make it clear that the wearing of a uniform is not always mandatory.

[Hardshell Clam]

However how can you get past the plain, simple wording:"senior members not meeting weight and grooming standards may wear CAP distinctive uniforms or civilian attire as befits the occasion"?  Just asking.[/color]

Since you quote this so often as the acceptance that Uniforms are not always required...Would you also agree that this only applies to members who don't meet weight and grooming standards?  And that is not intended for routine functions as the minimum uniforms meet the needs of most occasions as cited in 39-1?

As to "Would you also agree that this only applies to members who don't meet weight and grooming standards?" Yes.

As to "And that is not intended for routine functions as the minimum uniforms meet the needs of most occasions as cited in 39-1?". No, I would not. It states ...may wear CAP distinctive uniforms or civilian attire as befits the occasion

[SARDOC]

the very next statement found in CAPR 39-1 is "when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions"  the "X" in the table indicates "Wear" and not "Optional" so if being an IG is part of your normal duties as a CAP member it would seem that that Table makes wearing your uniform mandatory.

[Hardshell Clam]

Indeed, but we can all agree that wearing a uniform is not mandatory all the time, correct? And you know what, I have my old CG Aux uniform and it is the same as the USAF light blue/dark blue (same color, company I belive) so I guess I am set!

Non-concur.

The CG trousers are not the same shade of blue as the AF.

And there is a minimum uniform all senior members must have: either the AF-style shirtsleeve dress or the grey/white uniform.  That was made clear to me when I joined in 1993 (though the grey/white was different then) and even the uniform-disliking flying club senior squadron I belonged to acknowledged that.

If you are not wearing a uniform when flying or on ground team ops, I don't think the insurance coverage CAP has will kick in for you.

I was a CGAuxie myself some years back.  They definitely had uniform wear prescribed.

Flotilla meetings - Usually one of the tropical combinations, or winter dress/undress blue, depending on weather.
On patrol - Working blues (now ODU's).  I patrolled on the Division Captain's boat and you didn't even get on the vessel without proper uniform.
Nicely dressed - Service dress blue Alpha/Bravo.
Fancy dress (like COW)  - Mess dress blue/white, Dinner Dress blue/white.

If you don't like wearing a uniform, what are you doing in the auxiliary of a uniformed service?

I may well be wrong about the pants, as it was just a thought.

As to: "If you don't like wearing a uniform, what are you doing in the auxiliary of a uniformed service?", my preferences are mine and not a subject to others scrutiny. I need not defend this authorized choice that the CAP allows for. I have however posted my reasoning on when I feel a uniform is not desirable on specific occasions.

[Hardshell Clam]

the very next statement found in CAPR 39-1 is "when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions"  the "X" in the table indicates "Wear" and not "Optional" so if being an IG is part of your normal duties as a CAP member it would seem that that Table makes wearing your uniform mandatory.

These two sentences are not hinged on each other, they are two separate sentences on different lines. So I will reiterate that as much as you may want it so, two sources (the regs and an pamphlet officially issued by the CAP Nat' HQ) make it clear that the wearing of a uniform is not always mandatory.

[Hardshell Clam]

That was not an answer to the question asked.

did you mean FI?

In a word "no" in re: "So I may take it that you have not done a single IF" (sic).

[RiverAux]

So, Hardshell, what is your explanation for one statement saying that all members must wear uniforms while on normal CAP duty and the next sentence implying that those that don't meet weight/grooming have some sort of of out considering that there are perfectly appropriate uniform options available to them?

[Hardshell Clam]

So, Hardshell, what is your explanation for one statement saying that all members must wear uniforms while on normal CAP duty and the next sentence implying that those that don't meet weight/grooming have some sort of of out considering that there are perfectly appropriate uniform options available to them?

Any explanation that I offer would only be only my opinion. But I thought I made comment on that? You may also want to refer to the Thomas Jefferson quote above.

Conversely, what is your explanation concerning two official CAP HQ issued writings (undoubtedly reviewed and/or approved by "CAP legal" and/or the USAF) wherein it states that uniforms are not always required?

[NCRblues]

That was not an answer to the question asked.

did you mean FI?

In a word "no" in re: "So I may take it that you have not done a single IF" (sic).

So, no, you have never conducted an IG investigation... That says it all.

[Hardshell Clam]

That was not an answer to the question asked.

did you mean FI?

In a word "no" in re: "So I may take it that you have not done a single IF" (sic).

So, no, you have never conducted an IG investigation... That says it all.

I said No to the statement "So I may take it that you have not done a single IFs." (IGs). meaning no you may not take it that I have not performed any IG investigations. So to to make it clear: Yes, I have done IG investigations.

"That says it all"? Again with the rude comments, however I will let that slide as the response might have been confusing.

[Hardshell Clam]

CyBorg:  I did not address your statement: "If you are not wearing a uniform when flying or on ground team ops, I don't think the insurance coverage CAP has will kick in for you", Sorry, I just missed it.

You may well be correct, however I have said several times I do wear my uniform when required. I do not see the occasion when I would be flying in a CAP aircraft or directly involved with ground handling.

[DrJbdm]

He is not an IG, he may have taken a basic or maybe the senior IG course but I doubt he is a real Wing IG. I however am an IG and have done a few investigation, mostly consisting of official interviews. IG Investigations are considered 'A' missions so a uniform is required. If you are a real Wing IG, then simply tell us what wing, I'm sure the wing staff roster will list you as such. It's not privileged information.

SUI's and IG Investigations are Air Force Funded activities, therefor, you simply can not perform them in civilian clothes.

I don't know about how things are in his wing, but investigations are very rare animals, I have done three in the last three years and that was considered alot. Most of the stuff we do is SUI's. My BS meter is pinging pretty loud with this guy.

[SarDragon]

[jimmydeanno]

introverts

I am one of the biggest introverts you will ever find.  I have no problem wearing a uniform, and neither do any of the other introverts I've ever met.

Perhaps "shy" is the word you're looking for, because I don't see how the way I process information matters in my desire to wear a set of uniforms.

[a2capt]

Perhaps "shy" is the word you're looking for, because I don't see how the way I process information matters in my desire to wear a set of uniforms.

I concur with this, 100%. The "I" in INTP is strong with this one.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am one of the biggest introverts you will ever find.  I have no problem wearing a uniform, and neither do any of the other introverts I've ever met.

I am also a profound introvert.  Look up "ISFJ" on your favourite search engine.  A former girlfriend's father asked me if I ever used words longer than two syllables.

It has no bearing on my wearing a uniform.

In fact, it probably makes it easier because I don't stick out like a sore thumb.

[Smokey]

As a Sq CC I for one am glad that Hardshell Clam is   NOT  a member of my squadron.  With an attitude like his, I don't need that kind of grief.