Idea: CAP Marksmanship Ribbon

[sandman]

Why not use the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) already in place?
A cadet earning that badge can wear it on his or her AD uniform when he or she enlists.

http://www.odcmp.com/

The CMP was created by the U.S. Congress. The original purpose was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice marksmanship skills so they would be skilled marksmen if later called on to serve the U.S. military. Over the years the emphasis of the program shifted to focus on youth development through marksmanship. From 1916 until 1996 the CMP was administered by the U.S. Army. The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 (TITLE XVI) created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS) to take over administration and promotion of the CMP. The CPRPFS is a tax exempt not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization that derives its mission from public law.

Also, a ppt presentation on how to put it together:

http://www.odcmp.com/Coaching/Downloads/CampsClinics.ppt

[arajca]

The way I've seen it done is either in an organized unit activity or the cadet brings the target(s) in to show they've meet the requirements.

If CAP were to develop its own program, there are many hurdles that need to be cleared, most of which involve lawyers, who cost money, which CAP has precious little of. Adopting the NRA program and adding a "supervised activity" requirement may be the best way to go.

[Guardrail]

Why not use the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) already in place?
A cadet earning that badge can wear it on his or her AD uniform when he or she enlists.

I'm not aware of any CMP badge that can be worn on a military uniform.  Do you have a source?

[Hawk200]

Why not use the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) already in place?
A cadet earning that badge can wear it on his or her AD uniform when he or she enlists.

I'm not aware of any CMP badge that can be worn on a military uniform.  Do you have a source?

Actually, I can give you that info, it'll just take a few minutes. The CMP badges are authorized for wear on uniforms by all branches of the military. The only difference is the hanger for it usually states the specific branch of the uniform you're wearing. It's also mentioned in 39-1 (or at least it used to be)

Back in a few...

[Hawk200]

Well, I could give you a load of info, but it would end up in overload. I have attached the page of 39-1 that shows the CMP badges that are authorized.

The badges that are authorized for wear by CAP are the Excellence in Competion, and Distinguished Rifle or Pistol Shot badges. Those badges are awarded by the Deputy of Civilian Marksmanship, under the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

For the Army, the regulation series is 920 (which right now, is still not available electronically that I'm aware of). AR 670-1 authorizes wear, and actually illustrates both the badge, and proper placement.

For the Air Force, the program is administered under AFI 34-227 (attached). AFI 36-2903 authorizes, and explains wear.

I could include info for the Navy, Marine Corps, and probably Coast Guard, if you're truly interested. But it will take a while.

[Guardrail]

Well, I could give you a load of info, but it would end up in overload. I have attached the page of 39-1 that shows the CMP badges that are authorized.

The badges that are authorized for wear by CAP are the Excellence in Competion, and Distinguished Rifle or Pistol Shot badges. Those badges are awarded by the Deputy of Civilian Marksmanship, under the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

For the Army, the regulation series is 920 (which right now, is still not available electronically that I'm aware of). AR 670-1 authorizes wear, and actually illustrates both the badge, and proper placement.

For the Air Force, the program is administered under AFI 34-227 (attached). AFI 36-2903 authorizes, and explains wear.

I could include info for the Navy, Marine Corps, and probably Coast Guard, if you're truly interested. But it will take a while.

Thanks, Hawk 200.  Shows how good I am at reading between the lines.<a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxdm824YYUS%2526i%253D29%252F29%255F1%255F9%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"> 

Does anyone happen to have a pic of the badge/badges?  I don't think I've ever seen them.

[DNall]

Yeah I have to agree with Mike, plus if the point is to gain the advantages specified at the top of this thread, it must be as a CAP activity & not just to earn a ribbon/device.

CMP is intresting also versus NRA. It's a little more accessiblity problems, but less political perception issues. CAP could create its own program, but why when other have done the work & will administer it for us. The legal issues are what exactly? We already got AF funded total coverage insurance when not on missions, & that explicitly includes firearms programs regardless of who they're administered by.

I do like the CAP specific ribbon w/ clasps as stated rather than the NRA or CMP badge. That sounds good.

I'd also be interested in a NCSA (requiring a certain level in the NRA program as a pre-req) in which cadets go to a base, thru a fun little week of warrior orientation (they can't shoot all week, but they can get dirty, do some small unit tactics, lil op-for, and the o-course) & shoot for the AF Small-Arms Expert Ribbon. How's that sound? Maybe eve do it at Hurlburt Field where they can be given a little show.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Guardrail:

Go over to "For Those Who Don't Remember..."  There's a pic of a CAP LTC with the Berry Boards, and a Navy CPO with the Distinguished Marksman Award.

[Hawk200]

I do like the CAP specific ribbon w/ clasps as stated rather than the NRA or CMP badge. That sounds good.

There you go duplicating effort again, not to mention new expenses. Almost every branch of the uniform services authorizes the wear of CMP badges. What point is there to creating a ribbon exclusive to CAP?

If you compete in the program, meet the requirements, you get the appropriate badge. Besides, CMP competitors are extremely rare, why hide such a distinctive accomplishment within a ribbon rack?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Yeah I have to agree with Mike, plus if the point is to gain the advantages specified at the top of this thread, it must be as a CAP activity & not just to earn a ribbon/device.

CMP is intresting also versus NRA. It's a little more accessiblity problems, but less political perception issues. CAP could create its own program, but why when other have done the work & will administer it for us. The legal issues are what exactly? We already got AF funded total coverage insurance when not on missions, & that explicitly includes firearms programs regardless of who they're administered by.

I do like the CAP specific ribbon w/ clasps as stated rather than the NRA or CMP badge. That sounds good.

I'd also be interested in a NCSA (requiring a certain level in the NRA program as a pre-req) in which cadets go to a base, thru a fun little week of warrior orientation (they can't shoot all week, but they can get dirty, do some small unit tactics, lil op-for, and the o-course) & shoot for the AF Small-Arms Expert Ribbon. How's that sound? Maybe eve do it at Hurlburt Field where they can be given a little show.

Maybe even feed one or two to "Big John" in the "Officers' Swimming Pool?"

[Guardrail]

Guardrail:

Go over to "For Those Who Don't Remember..."  There's a pic of a CAP LTC with the Berry Boards, and a Navy CPO with the Distinguished Marksman Award.

Thanks, sir.  I searched for "For Those Who Don't Remember..." and nothing came up.  What folder can I find it in?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Scroll down, son, its there.

For those who don't remember the days...

About a dozen or so threads down from this one.

[Guardrail]

Scroll down, son, its there.

For those who don't remember the days...

About a dozen or so threads down from this one.

I found it, sir.  Thanks again.  For a moment, I thought I was <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxdm824YYUS%2526i%253D10%252F10%255F1%255F123%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank">

I notice the CPO was wearing his wings under his ribbons.  Is that allowable?

[DNall]

Moving on to the award specs...

The NRA has seven levels, although some levels have multiple steps:
Basic Participant
Pro-Marksman
Marksman
Marksman 1st Class
Sharpshooter (some classes have several stages of Sharpshooter)
Expert
Distinguished Expert

A simple award scheme is to award the ribbon for the first level (Basic Participant), followed by bronze stars for each of the Marksman levels, and silver stars for Sharpshooter (1), Expert (2), and Distinguished Expert (3). When the member receives their Shaprshooter qualification, they remove the bronze stars and just wear the one silver.

The ribbon would be worn behind the Encampment ribbon or somewhere in that area.

There you go duplicating effort again, not to mention new expenses. Almost every branch of the uniform services authorizes the wear of CMP badges. What point is there to creating a ribbon exclusive to CAP?

If you compete in the program, meet the requirements, you get the appropriate badge. Besides, CMP competitors are extremely rare, why hide such a distinctive accomplishment within a ribbon rack?

Spec mentioned was getting rid of the funky mismatched NRA badge while moving into more complete participation. CMP is fine too. I tell ya though, I like the idea of it being pretty easy to get the initial understated award, but then being able to work thru levels to a harder award that'll earn them something they can take with them to the military.

I notice the CPO was wearing his wings under his ribbons.  Is that allowable?

Surface warfare pin.

[Guardrail]

Surface warfare pin.

Oh, now I see.  Thanks, sir.  The picture is kind of blurry.  <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxdm824YYUS%2526i%253D10%252F10%255F7%255F6%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank">

[DNall]

no doubt, I'd think it was wings too if the text didn't explain.

[DNall]

This is 05, by the way. We don't do enough, but we do it just the same. I swear it seems like every other cader I see has the NRA badge now days. I do think there's a better way though.

[Guardrail]

I swear it seems like every other cadet I see has the NRA badge now days. I do think there's a better way though.

I know what you mean sir; I've seen many cadets wear the NRA marksmanship badges.  Earned mine at my basic encampment back in 99'.  Wore it all the time as a Cadet NCO, stopped wearing it shortly after I rated the Cadet Solo wings (except on the Semi-Formal).   

Question: have you ever seen a member of the Air Force/CAP wear the CMP marksmanship badge?  I know it's authrorized, but I've never seen it worn on an Air Force uniform.   

[Hawk200]

Question: have you ever seen a member of the Air Force/CAP wear the CMP marksmanship badge?  I know it's authrorized, but I've never seen it worn on an Air Force uniform.   

Only one in person, several more in photos. And the one I knew personally, actually carried around a copy of both his orders for it, and a copy of the page from the uniform manual authorizing it. As usual, there are people that are absolutely ignorant as to what is authorized on a uniform.

They are more common in the Army (and Army Guard) and considering that they are very similar to the Army marksmanship badges, most people don't have any problems there.

I don't see any real need for a CAP marksmanship ribbon. We have no mission whatsoever that requires anyone in CAP to be shooting anyone or anything. And the fact that we are restricted from carrying firearms in the first place is sufficient reason not create a ribbon for it. It doesn't fit us.

Wearing the CMP badges is basically honoring someone elses award, usually the military's recognition of firearm skills. Not much different than honoring a military officers grade. At least from my viewpoint, YMMV.

We shouldn't have to make up our program to recognize anything, and that's what creating a CAP marksman ribbon would be. Although, I consider it equitable for CAP members to shoot on an Air Force range, taught by Air Force range personnel, and receive the Air Force ribbon. That would be allowing the Air Force to present us awards of accomplishments. Not to mention, we wouldn't have to create anything.

[Guardrail]

Question: have you ever seen a member of the Air Force/CAP wear the CMP marksmanship badge?  I know it's authrorized, but I've never seen it worn on an Air Force uniform.   

Only one in person, several more in photos. And the one I knew personally, actually carried around a copy of both his orders for it, and a copy of the page from the uniform manual authorizing it. As usual, there are people that are absolutely ignorant as to what is authorized on a uniform.

I know what you mean.  Do you have any links to photos of AF personnel wearing the CMP badge, Hawk200?  It would be interesting to see what it looks like on the AF uniform. 

I don't see any real need for a CAP marksmanship ribbon. We have no mission whatsoever that requires anyone in CAP to be shooting anyone or anything. And the fact that we are restricted from carrying firearms in the first place is sufficient reason not create a ribbon for it. It doesn't fit us.

I understand, but can't CAP come up with a marksmanship ribbon that would be awarded according to the NRA and CMP critera and worn in lieu of the NRA badge?  CAP could have its own ribbon without having its own marksmanship program.

Good example is the AFROTC Cadet Marksmanship ribbon.  It is awarded in lieu of the AF Small Arms Expert Marksmanship ribbon (which repaces the AFROTC ribbon upon commissioning).  AFROTC doesn't have it's own marksmanship program; it uses the USAF program instead.

Wearing the CMP badges is basically honoring someone elses award, usually the military's recognition of firearm skills. Not much different than honoring a military officers grade. At least from my viewpoint, YMMV.

I agree.

We shouldn't have to make up our program to recognize anything, and that's what creating a CAP marksman ribbon would be.

Not necessarily.  Like I said, CAP could have its own marksmanship ribbon without having to create its own marksmanship program.

Although, I consider it equitable for CAP members to shoot on an Air Force range, taught by Air Force range personnel, and receive the Air Force ribbon. That would be allowing the Air Force to present us awards of accomplishments. Not to mention, we wouldn't have to create anything.

I feel the same way, Hawk200.  However, isin't the AF Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon only authorized for AF personnel who rate it in the AF and choose to wear it on the CAP uniform?  I was told this by a CAP officer a while back.  Not sure if he was correct or not.