Idea: CAP Marksmanship Ribbon

[Guardrail]

I have long thought about the idea of a CAP marksmanship ribbon for cadets and seniors.  I know that CAP currently authorizes the NRA marksmanship badges, but they are for cadets only and look rather out of place on the Air Force style uniform.  Has anyone else thought about CAP making a marksmanship ribbon?  The Air Force has a Small Arms Expert ribbon, and CAP having it's own would put CAP more in line with the Air Force.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I like it.  Write it up and send it through your wing king.

[Guardrail]

I would, but I'm no longer in CAP.  Maybe I could post one here and someone could volunteer to send it up to their wing king, just like with the Membership Ribbon. 

[arajca]

Do you have a CAP specific program in mind, or would you use the NRA or one of the DoD programs?

[MIKE]

Rather than repeat myself: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1229.msg16199#msg16199

[Guardrail]

Do you have a CAP specific program in mind, or would you use the NRA or one of the DoD programs?

I would use the NRA/DoD marksmanship programs.  What I propose is a CAP-specific ribbon that would be worn in lieu of the NRA Marksmanship badges.  Something like what AFROTC currently has.  The only addition is that both seniors and cadets could wear it. 

Anyone meeting the NRA/DoD marksmanship standards would qualify for the ribbon.   

[SarDragon]

Please explain to me why CAP members need firearms skills as a function of their participation.

I acknowledge that cadet participation in the NRA program is an interest builder, but I see little useful crossover to the SM world within a strict CAP context.

[sandman]

Please explain to me why CAP members need firearms skills as a function of their participation.

I acknowledge that cadet participation in the NRA program is an interest builder, but I see little useful crossover to the SM world within a strict CAP context.

"Espirit de Corps", for fun, for the heck of it. Discipline is another reason. Gives people something to shoot for (pardon the pun). Fellowship. I understand it has no direct CAP relevance in the lower 48....yet (CG AUX on east coast somewhere rumored to be receiving certain weapons training), but why not?

[Major Carrales]

Please explain to me why CAP members need firearms skills as a function of their participation.

I acknowledge that cadet participation in the NRA program is an interest builder, but I see little useful crossover to the SM world within a strict CAP context.

When I was a lad, my grandpa took me hunting and taught to respect weapons (firearms).  I'm sure many of you had that talk.

These days I see all sorts of stupidity and lack of respect for firearms from the youth.  I suspect the tradition of Grandpa or Pop teaching kids how to handle firearms is greatly reduced.

If we are doing the NRA thing as status quo...why not make it more internal?

[SarDragon]

Well, my question is satisfactorily answered. Thank you.

As for an internal program, what for? The NRA program works fine and using it skirts breaking any of the other rules regarding firearms, or requiring changes to them.

[afgeo4]

If a CAP marksmanship ribbon was to be instituted there would have to be regulations on the issue of this ribbon. That would mean we'd have to have a marksmanship program of our own. That's a tough action to sell when we have no budget.

It's also hard to tell people that we're a benevolent organization and then tell them about your marksmanship ribbon.

[DNall]

I don't know about JROTC, but at the college level you shoot at camp & get the AF ribbon. Best case in my mind would be a multi-level program (from 22s) leadng to the AF ribbon.

To what end? Well, why do we have PJOC or Engineering whatever it's called? Generally to expose cadets to AF career opportunities, get them fired up abou tthe AF versus the more "hardcore" services - that's a big key, we lose a lot of cadets to Marine & Army cause they're looking for a challenge. Shooting programs accomplish the same thing. Give a cadet over 16 & in the advanced shooting program the chance to shoot an M16 & M9 to qual expert & get the AF ribbon before they go to basic, that's huge. You know what that would do for recruiting & retention?

Do Srs need to do it? Well I think you need to do anything you ask of your people, but that's just an excuse. It'd help  w/ recruiting & retention to a degree, and on another level it reinforces that this is a serious military linked activity & you got to approach missions w/ a warrior sort of mission-centric attitude. I think you'd find it pretty limited thought to people working with cadets & relatively few others.

The Army is a benevolent organizaiton, at least for US citizens. Police are benevolent. It's not the hypocratic oath. Some other benevolent cadet programs do a better job than us on this & some other hooah programs. It'd be nice to catch up. One of the things we do is give our kids advantages when they go on to later mil programs...

[arajca]

Let's play this out a little:

Using the NRA program has a couple advantages:
1. National recognized
2. Safe
3. Readily available
4. No special equipment needed - aside from guns and ammo
5. Already being used in CAP

Using a DoD program has advantages:
1. If cadets join the military, that's what they may likely use
2. Using the AF program, there is the potential for earning the AF Marksmanship ribbon(s)

Developing a custom CAP program:
1. Meets our needs

NRA has a couple disadvantages:
1. The NRA. Some people think the NRA is a right-wing group of crazies who just want to kill.
2. Awards, medals, patches, etc, cost money
3. No special range needed

DoD also has disadvantages:
1. Lack of DoD facilities in many wings, or lack of access to the facilities (MAJOR issue)
2. DoD may not want non-DoD civilians using their equipment or awards

Developing a custom CAP program:
1. Legal issues
2. Availability
3. Legal issues
4. Cost
5. Legal issues

There may be other programs available, but I don't know of them.

Moving on to the award specs...

The NRA has seven levels, although some levels have multiple steps:
Basic Participant
Pro-Marksman
Marksman
Marksman 1st Class
Sharpshooter (some classes have several stages of Sharpshooter)
Expert
Distinguished Expert

A simple award scheme is to award the ribbon for the first level (Basic Participant), followed by bronze stars for each of the Marksman levels, and silver stars for Sharpshooter (1), Expert (2), and Distinguished Expert (3). When the member receives their Shaprshooter qualification, they remove the bronze stars and just wear the one silver.

The ribbon would be worn behind the Encampment ribbon or somewhere in that area.

[JohnKachenmeister]

If a CAP marksmanship ribbon was to be instituted there would have to be regulations on the issue of this ribbon. That would mean we'd have to have a marksmanship program of our own. That's a tough action to sell when we have no budget.

It's also hard to tell people that we're a benevolent organization and then tell them about your marksmanship ribbon.

Dude.

On active duty I was an officially "Non-combatant" medic.  I still had to qualify with the .45 and the M-14, even though they were using the M-16 in Vietnam.  The Marines didn't have enough M-16's to use in training and still equip the Marines in Vietnam with them.  I qualified "Expert" with both, then got to Vietnam and never fired a shot.

[RiverAux]

CG Aux does not receive any weaons training.  However, there are ways for CG Auxies with the right skills to assist in training Coast Guardsmen in their use.  Very rare though. 

[Joe Baker]

I am trying to become an NRA Istructor.  [I have to wait until I'm 21 though]
But yes, the ribbion sounds like a great idea!

[MIKE]

My beef with the NRA program is that it can be done on the honor system, and you can still get CAP credit for it. 

[Joe Baker]

My beef with the NRA program is that it can be done on the honor system, and you can still get CAP credit for it. 

Soo?

[CAPLAW]

Good idea guardrail, I am a member of the NRA and I support the idea.  I think firearms safety should be given to cadets in a formal safety briefing at  the cap  level.  good luck

[MIKE]

My beef with the NRA program is that it can be done on the honor system, and you can still get CAP credit for it. 

Soo?

I would prefer that it be done under the supervision of a CAP authority, conducted in an organized manner... In order for it to be worn on the CAP uniform.  Gives it a little more creditability than me saying I went out in my backyard and shot a course of fire with a pellet gun.... And I have the certificate/medal I sent away for to prove it.