Foreign Military Decorations on the CAP uniform

[tjhumphries]

I was looking through the 23 March 2005 CAPM 39-1 in regards to the wear of Foreign Military Decorations on the CAP uniform. Table 5-2 Senior Ribbons - Order of Precedence, lists the order of precedence as US Military Decorations, followed by CAP Awards, followed by Foreign Decorations. However, Table 5-3 Order of Precedence for Wear of US Military Awards and Decorations on the CAP AF-style Uniform, says that "all are worn above the CAP ribbons" and then goes on to list several Foreign Decorations including NATO Medals and Kingdom of Kuwait and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait Liberation Medals.

So depending on where you look in CAPM 39-1 either we wear US Military Ribbons, then CAP Ribbons and then Foreign Ribbons OR we wear US Military Ribbons, then Foreign Ribbons and then CAP Ribbons. Does anyone know which order of precedence is correct?

[lordmonar]

Depends on how you interpet what are "military decorations"

One school of thought is that Foreign decorations earned on AD are "military decorations" and "Foreign" decorations are those foreign decorations earned at CAP time.

The other school of thought is that all foreign decorations go behind the CAP deocorations.....so the NATO, UN, RVN ribbons and Kawait Liberations all go after your CAP ribbons.

[tjhumphries]

Right, those are exactly the two sides of the argument I have always heard anytime this subject was broached. CAPM 39-1 Paragraph 5-4b states that in regards to Foreign Decorations, "Only those decorations that have been duly approved by Congress for acceptance and wear by the individual may be worn". The primary Foreign Decorations that meet this criteria are those commonly awarded to members of the US Military such as the Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal, Kuwait Liberation Medals and the NATO Medals. So if the correct order of precedence is:

1)   US Military Ribbons
2)   Foreign Decorations earned while in the US Military
3)   CAP Ribbons
4)   Foreign Decorations earned while a civilian

Very few if any awards would fall into category 4. This leads to me to believe that the correct order is:

1)   US Military Ribbons
2)   CAP Ribbons
3)   Foreign Decorations "approved by Congress for acceptance and wear by the individual"

I doubt that a concrete answer exists, just another example of the many ambiguities in 39-1. 

[Hawk200]

1)   US Military Ribbons
2)   CAP Ribbons
3)   Foreign Decorations "approved by Congress for acceptance and wear by the individual"

That mirrors one of the previous versions of 39-1. Probably the best way to go. With most foreign decs, they go below any US decorations, and CAP is a US entity.

I doubt that a concrete answer exists, just another example of the many ambiguities in 39-1.

That's not an ambiguity, it's an outright contradiction. It's probably a result of things being cut and pasted from one previous verison, but the contradiction was cut and pasted from a different previous version(not all previous versions agree with each other). 39-1 needs to be written from the ground up not re-written with a bunch of cut and paste. The carry-overs create the problems.

There's also other "authorized for wear" based on someone's say-so that didn't even end up in policy letters. Which is one more problem.

[MSG Mac]

Personally I wear my Cross of Gallentry, Armed Forces Honor Medal, Vietnam CAmpaign Medal and the various foreign Unit Awards After my CAP ribbons which of course follow my US decorations amd service medals. 

[Sapper168]

Actually if you read ALL of 39-1 section 5 you will see a table 5-3 which lists all US Military awards and decorations worn in precedence.  Included in that is
92. Foreign Decoration
93. Philippine Presidential Unit Citation
94. Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation
95. Other Foreign Unit Citations
96. United Nations Service Medal
97. United Nations Medal
98. NATO Medal
99. Multilateral Organization Awards
100. Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal
101. Kuwait Liberation Medal (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
102. Kuwaiti Kuwait Liberation Medal
103. Foreign Service Medals

These are all awarded by foreign countries or organizations and to quote the table "...(all are worn above the CAP ribbons)..."    Sorry no ambiguity on this specific matter.

[Hawk200]

Actually if you read ALL of 39-1 section 5 you will see a table 5-3 which lists all US Military awards and decorations worn in precedence.  Included in that is
92. Foreign Decoration
93. Philippine Presidential Unit Citation
94. Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation
95. Other Foreign Unit Citations
96. United Nations Service Medal
97. United Nations Medal
98. NATO Medal
99. Multilateral Organization Awards
100. Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal
101. Kuwait Liberation Medal (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
102. Kuwaiti Kuwait Liberation Medal
103. Foreign Service Medals

These are all awarded by foreign countries or organizations and to quote the table "...(all are worn above the CAP ribbons)..."    Sorry no ambiguity on this specific matter.

Didn't read Table 5-2, did you?

[tjhumphries]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will wait for a non-contradictory, definitive answer in the forthcoming rewritten CAPM 39-1. From reading the conversations on that topic, I think I'll get in line, it seems a lot of people have been waiting for such a document to emerge.

Lt Col McEleney, I want to thank you for your service in Vietnam, my generation of Soldier has a great deal of respect for you guys and what you endured and achieved for your country.

[lordmonar]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will wait for a non-contradictory, definitive answer in the forthcoming rewritten CAPM 39-1. From reading the conversations on that topic, I think I'll get in line, it seems a lot of people have been waiting for such a document to emerge.

Lt Col McEleney, I want to thank you for your service in Vietnam, my generation of Soldier has a great deal of respect for you guys and what you endured and achieved for your country.

While you are waiting.....I've got this bridge for sale....big investiment opportunty, cheap.....cash only.....and in small bills.

[flyboy53]

Not that I want to belabor the point, but the list of foreign awards are only the common ones. There is a procedure, at least in the Air Force, where you can apply for permission to wear a foreign award. That's how I got to wear mine.

[MSG Mac]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will wait for a non-contradictory, definitive answer in the forthcoming rewritten CAPM 39-1. From reading the conversations on that topic, I think I'll get in line, it seems a lot of people have been waiting for such a document to emerge.

Lt Col McEleney, I want to thank you for your service in Vietnam, my generation of Soldier has a great deal of respect for you guys and what you endured and achieved for your country.

You're welcome

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I would think that if it is awarded by a foreign government in writing it would be fine.

After all, Audie Murphy had the French Croix de Guerre and Legion d'Honneur and the Belgian Croix de Guerre.

As well, many of the "Yanks" who served in the RAF/RCAF were allowed to wear British decorations on their U.S. uniforms once they transferred to the USAAF (Don Gentile, Donald Blakeslee).

[davedove]

The problem is that the chart of US Decorations was lifted whole cloth from the AF reg.  It even contains an order of precedence mistake that has been subsequently corrected in the AF reg, but not the CAP reg (Outstanding Volunteer Service medal and the Humanitarian Service Medal).

Of course, for the AF, there was no need for CAP ribbons, so the foreign decorations come immediately after the US military ribbons.

It is something that definitely needs to be cleaned up and clarified in the CAP regs.

[AC]

Thought I would post here in hopes that I am wearing mine right, which I think I am. I couldn't find a rack maker that did the offset, so I took a pic of mine for my sig.

[ßτε]

Thought I would post here in hopes that I am wearing mine right, which I think I am. I couldn't find a rack maker that did the offset, so I took a pic of mine for my sig.

Just checking, you were a cadet before 1964?

[davidsinn]

Thought I would post here in hopes that I am wearing mine right, which I think I am. I couldn't find a rack maker that did the offset, so I took a pic of mine for my sig.

Just checking, you were a cadet before 1964?

It looks like he has a Vietnam ribbon on top so I wouldn't doubt it.

[Eclipse]

The certificate of proficiency is no longer worn.

[ßτε]

The certificate of proficiency is no longer worn.

Says who?

[davidsinn]

The certificate of proficiency is no longer worn.

That's not what the knowledgebase says.

[AC]

Just checking, you were a cadet before 1964?

Yep, from 1956-1958. Florida Wing. Good times as a cadet then! Right on Eglin AFB.