Wearing CAP Blues in Airport

[Zen Master Charlie]

...I always make sure to explain to them, that we're with CAP, no need to salute etc...

Please don't do that anymore.  Just return the salute and move on.

Well, I typically only do it with the Army ROTC cadets that we see every week. But why not. Every senior member I've ever met has told me to do the same.

[DakRadz]

...I always make sure to explain to them, that we're with CAP, no need to salute etc...

Please don't do that anymore.  Just return the salute and move on.

Well, I typically only do it with the Army ROTC cadets that we see every week. But why not. Every senior member I've ever met has told me to do the same.

You know how easy it is to come across as condescending or insulting? You're telling them they're wrong and they did something they weren't required to- very easy for them to think you're trying to laugh at them, etc. I've been in the situation and it can turn bad regardless of your intentions. I'm speaking from experience...
I usually only explain when someone says "I gave you the military discount" in which case I reverse that.

Besides, if they are Army ROTC, and you're what? A C/Capt? The ranks are the same, so that's probably why they're saluting. Accept it and move on.

[Zen Master Charlie]

...I always make sure to explain to them, that we're with CAP, no need to salute etc...

Please don't do that anymore.  Just return the salute and move on.

Well, I typically only do it with the Army ROTC cadets that we see every week. But why not. Every senior member I've ever met has told me to do the same.

You know how easy it is to come across as condescending or insulting? You're telling them they're wrong and they did something they weren't required to- very easy for them to think you're trying to laugh at them, etc. I've been in the situation and it can turn bad regardless of your intentions. I'm speaking from experience...
I usually only explain when someone says "I gave you the military discount" in which case I reverse that.

Besides, if they are Army ROTC, and you're what? A C/Capt? The ranks are the same, so that's probably why they're saluting. Accept it and move on.

Like I said, I'm speaking from experiance as well, I get in this situation about twice a month, and each time I politley explain it, and they typically say something like 'thanks for the info man, I appriciate it' or 'ok, cool' what ever, and they usually smile, we shake hands and move on, no big deal.

Also, you guys tend to think I'm BS'ing out of my pants, but here it is (just so you know my pants arent dirty on this one):

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2239&p_created=1297354570

This is what I was tought 6 years ago, its what I've done for 6 years without complaint from either side, it's what I'm going to continue to do.

[Eclipse]

Well, I typically only do it with the Army ROTC cadets that we see every week. But why not. Every senior member I've ever met has told me to do the same.

Then every senior member you've met is way overthinking the situation.

Just return it and move on, no one you randomly encounter needs a speech from you or anyone else on CAP's proper "place" in the universe.
Further, you put the idea in their head they can "filter" salutes, and the next thing you know they miss an important one and are in trouble.

What you were "taught" is that the military is not required to salute CAP, not that it is your mission to "fix" the situation.

Return it and move on.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Well, I typically only do it with the Army ROTC cadets that we see every week. But why not. Every senior member I've ever met has told me to do the same.

Then every senior member you've met is way overthinking the situation.

Just return it and move on, no one you randomly encounter needs a speech from you or anyone else on CAP's proper "place" in the universe.
Further, you put the idea in their head they can "filter" salutes, and the next thing you know they miss an important one and are in trouble.

What you were "taught" is that the military is not required to salute CAP, not that it is your mission to "fix" the situation.

Return it and move on.

I'm not trying to "Fix" the situation, infact I always mention its no big deal and works either way, and because of this, some of them still salute, its a common courtesy, if they want to, they can, but if they dont want to worry about it, then thats their choice too. Like I said, I've been doing it for 6 years, and never had one complaint, its been the same cadets and same unit, and typically one of their instructors, and AF Maj, also a member of our squadron teaches them this on their first day and he too, doesnt tell them they are not supposed to, but simply "have the option"

There is nothing wrong with how I handle it, I'm not gonna change a 6 year habit and tradition in my squadron because some people told me to on CAPTalk. This is one situation my dear friends where there is nothing you can do.  :clap:

[Eclipse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_damage

There are some people in this world that simply will never understand this term, or choose to ignore it in favor of their own reality bubble.

[Zen Master Charlie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_damage

There are some people in this world that simply will never understand this term, or choose to ignore it in favor of their own reality bubble.

I completley understand that term, and its meaning, but after 6 years I have yet to see any collateral damage, hence why I'm not stoping my practice. 

[Hawk200]

Military personnel are taught to salute certain insginia. Just accept it, return it, thank them, move on.

I used to explain it to people. One thing that taught me to rethink it was when saluted by Marines. I explained, and they told me that the Corps doesn't care if we're "non military", we're wearing officer rank, they will salute it.

There's also the fact that we have enough people with issues with CAP. Don't give them more ammo. Being stubborn on this could cost us.

I completley understand that term, and its meaning, but after 6 years I have yet to see any collateral damage, hence why I'm not stoping my practice. 

On another note, lack of knowledge of problems doesn't preclude them.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Please don't do that anymore.  Just return the salute and move on.

This usually smoothes things over and follows the K.I.S.S. approach.

Most of the time I get saluted by military personnel, except for the Air Force.

Just take it for what it is, a gesture of respect to the rank, not necessarily to the person wearing it.

[Eclipse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_damage

There are some people in this world that simply will never understand this term, or choose to ignore it in favor of their own reality bubble.

I completely understand that term, and its meaning, but after 6 years I have yet to see any collateral damage, hence why I'm not stoping my practice.

The point, is that the wake you might have caused goes unseen.  Erosion, whether of rocks, soil, or reputation, is usually something that takes years, but is just as irreversible and the kind of damage an earthquake causes, you just don't notice it until it is too late to do anything about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Even though we are not obligated to salute officers of the USPHS/NOAA Corps, I still would anyway, because of the "salute-the-rank-not-the-person-wearing-it" criteria.

(Former Surgeon General VADM Richard Carmona, USPHS)



(RADM Jonathan W. Bailey, NOAA)



Anyway, they look so much like the Navy that there's no way I'd wait until I was close enough to see their distinguishing markings (no "low-light/at-a-distance" felgercarb for them!) before deciding they were "worthy" of a salute...

I wonder if USPHS and NOAA get gigged for wearing their uniforms in an airport?

[AngelWings]

 Huh? Salute the rank, not the person? The whole idea is to show respect for an individual. Otherwise, a salute is just a random hand gesture with no meaning.

[SarDragon]

Huh? Salute the rank, not the person? The whole idea is to show respect for an individual. Otherwise, a salute is just a random hand gesture with no meaning.

There have been a few people over the years who I have saluted only because of their rank, because I had so little respect for them as individuals. If you haven't run across someone like that, consider yourself fortunate. They are out there.

[Persona non grata]

Even though we are not obligated to salute officers of the USPHS/NOAA Corps, I still would anyway, because of the "salute-the-rank-not-the-person-wearing-it" criteria.

(Former Surgeon General VADM Richard Carmona, USPHS)



(RADM Jonathan W. Bailey, NOAA)



Anyway, they look so much like the Navy that there's no way I'd wait until I was close enough to see their distinguishing markings (no "low-light/at-a-distance" felgercarb for them!) before deciding they were "worthy" of a salute...

I wonder if USPHS and NOAA get gigged for wearing their uniforms in an airport?


Might want to read up on that one. You salute them, they are commissioned .

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^Yes, they are commissioned; they attend the Kings Point Academy to earn that.  But they are not members of the Armed Forces, except when USPHS personnel are attached to the USCG, in which case they wear CG uniform with USPHS insignia.

However, 39-1 seems to say differently:

(2) You salute the President of the United States, all Medal of Honor recipients, and commissioned officers and warrant officers of the Armed Forces who are senior in rank to you.

Emphasis mine...but kind of moot since I'd see gold braid, oakleaves, chickens, etc and would salute nonetheless.

[ol'fido]

To put this all simply...

You've heard the old military axiom, "When it doubt, whip it out(referring to the salute, of course, ahem). Well, let me add my own, "If they whip it, YOU whip it."(and to return to the original subject of this thread) even if it's at the airport.

[titanII]

As for the original question/post... I don't wear my blues on any flight. I probably never will, because of comfort. I would probably only wear my blues on a flight if it was required for an activity I had to fly to. That being said, I wouldn't mind if I saw I fellow CAP member wearing his blues on a flight- as long as he or she was representing CAP well (i.e. uniform IAW 39-1; not being a troll or a jerk; etc.)

[DakRadz]

^^Yes, they are commissioned; they attend the Kings Point Academy to earn that.  But they are not members of the Armed Forces, except when USPHS personnel are attached to the USCG, in which case they wear CG uniform with USPHS insignia.

However, 39-1 seems to say differently:

(2) You salute the President of the United States, all Medal of Honor recipients, and commissioned officers and warrant officers of the Armed Forces who are senior in rank to you.

Emphasis mine...but kind of moot since I'd see gold braid, oakleaves, chickens, etc and would salute nonetheless.

They are members of the Uniformed Services, which is in a category with all the Armed Forces, so. I'd say they rank CAP, eh?


P.S. King's Point is for Merchant Marine- it's a college/academy. I do believe (and will go research and edit with results) that USPHS and NOAA have their own Officer Candidate School that leads to a commission- but you need your degree first.

EDIT: NOAA has a 2-year program for commission, basically OCS for them.
USPHS has less info, but you must have your degree(s).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I know Kings Point is for the USMMA.

However, NOAA Corps uses it as well.

http://www.noaacorps.noaa.gov/recruiting/training.html

You are correct about USPHS having to have degree-in-hand, but I still think they take some training at Kings Point.

I'm willing to bet that they don't get hassled for looking so much like the Navy as we do the AF...

[ßτε]

However, 39-1 seems to say differently:

(2) You salute the President of the United States, all Medal of Honor recipients, and commissioned officers and warrant officers of the Armed Forces who are senior in rank to you.

Where, specifically, is that quote from? I can't find it in (CAPM) 39-1.