Wearing CAP Blues in Airport

Started by capsr, June 23, 2011, 11:40:01 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Phillip

Personally, I'd never dream of traveling in a CAP uniform (any variation) for non-CAP related business.  Aside from being impractical, its against regs (or manuals, pamphlets, ICL, BBQs, V1Rotate).

Now, if the traveling were for CAP business (a conference or training event of some sort) then I'd consider it, provided the event's Commanding Officer didn't specifically prohibit it.  I think for the SWR Staff College, traveling via commercial means was to be done in civies as outlined in the instruction booklet.

If I were to do it, it wouldn't be out of a selfish desire to draw attention to myself, get discounts, or whatever.  I would be, for lack of a better way to describe it, a PR opportunity.  Many people still don't know what were are if they even know we exist.  Vanguard used to sell a nice button down dress shirt with the Command Patch on it that would work quite well in this case too, but those are long gone replaced by a shirt with a rather...uninspired..."logo."  At least the hat is decent.
Captain

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2011, 10:42:43 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 25, 2011, 09:00:18 PMI think there's enough distinction on the cadet side so there won't be any wanna bee factor

A cadet officer wearing the 3-button service coat is virtually indistinguishable from regular USAF officers, especially to the general public not in CAP or the military.

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 25, 2011, 09:00:18 PM
There's been senior members who have been playing this "wanna bee" game for some time and know EXACTLY what I am talking about

Please define.
Any senior member who violates the 1 hour uniform wear rule (CAPM 39-1, table 1-1, Wear of the CAP Uniform), especially any USAF type uniform (wonder why that rule ever got put on the books ???).
Any senior member who flies on a commercial airline flight in a CAP USAF type uniform.   There's NO reason they need to be flying in uniform whatsoever.  The regulation never meant the transit time to include flying in commercial aircraft for many hours.
Frankly, I'd be laughing my butt off IF I ever got on a commercial airline and observed a CAP senior member in an AF type uniform on the same flight >:D   I might even be temped to tell the stewardess/steward to pay special to that guy or girl since it was likely a "cult" spin off of the real CAP >:D :angel:

Most adult senior member in CAP are NOT flying commercial in CAP AF type uniforms.  Most cadets are not flying commercial in CAP AF type uniforms.  I don't think you will find ANYONE flying commercial to any cadet special activity/competition wearing a CAP uniform.   Just the comfort factor alone on a flight over 1 hour long would be a good logical reason.   Also why would ANYONE want to call attention to themselves.   When I was in the AF, we basically didn't call attention to ourselves by wearing our uniforms while traveling on commercial aircraft flights.   It's just plain good common sense personal security to NOT be in any uniform.   However, the "wanna bees" are definitely going to be in uniform, no doubt about it ::).
RM     

PHall

You know RM, the way you keep bringing up "wannabes", kinda makes  ya wonder.
The last few "wannabes" that were busted around here were the ones who really harped on wannabes.
Just like you do...

Hawk200

Quote from: PHall on June 26, 2011, 03:41:25 AM
You know RM, the way you keep bringing up "wannabes", kinda makes  ya wonder.
The last few "wannabes" that were busted around here were the ones who really harped on wannabes.
Just like you do...
Glad I wasn't the only one with that thought.

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: PHall on June 26, 2011, 03:41:25 AM
You know RM, the way you keep bringing up "wannabes", kinda makes  ya wonder.
The last few "wannabes" that were busted around here were the ones who really harped on wannabes.
Just like you do...
Explain the term 'busted" in your context please ???

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 04:05:33 AM
Explain the term 'busted" in your context please ???

To have insults like "wannabe," which in your terminology seems to be anyone in CAP not wearing the polo shirt, rebuffed, dissected and disproven.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

jimmydeanno

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 04:05:33 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 26, 2011, 03:41:25 AM
You know RM, the way you keep bringing up "wannabes", kinda makes  ya wonder.
The last few "wannabes" that were busted around here were the ones who really harped on wannabes.
Just like you do...
Explain the term 'busted" in your context please ???

They claimed military service and droned on and on about how CAP members were all wannabes.  Then, after a few months and a few hundred posts, the stories didn't match up, and they were exposed as phonies, faking their military service to a bunch of CAP members, on the internet.  The very epitome of a wannabe.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

abdsp51

So Radioman, I deploy and fly commercial and my team chief decides we are flying in uniform does that now make us wannabes?

RADIOMAN015

#48
Quote from: abdsp51 on June 26, 2011, 07:18:02 AM
So Radioman, I deploy and fly commercial and my team chief decides we are flying in uniform does that now make us wannabes?
IF you are in the military you do what the military tells you to do.  This has to do with CAP members flying in AF type uniforms, not military personnel.   Surely when military personnel are flying in uniform they deserve special recognition by the airlines and the airline staff should be going out of their way in any way they can to help the military member.  I would hate to see any confusion with CAP members flying in AF type uniforms, pure and simple >:(
RM   

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: jimmydeanno on June 26, 2011, 05:16:09 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 04:05:33 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 26, 2011, 03:41:25 AM
You know RM, the way you keep bringing up "wannabes", kinda makes  ya wonder.
The last few "wannabes" that were busted around here were the ones who really harped on wannabes.
Just like you do...
Explain the term 'busted" in your context please ???

They claimed military service and droned on and on about how CAP members were all wannabes.  Then, after a few months and a few hundred posts, the stories didn't match up, and they were exposed as phonies, faking their military service to a bunch of CAP members, on the internet.  The very epitome of a wannabe.
Really -- so cite what wing(s) that happen in ???.  Who was that on this list (screen name)???   

Hey, many wanna bees in the organization don't even realize they are engaged in this BUT to others (including those outside the CAP organization) it is readily apparently.   They also mean well.   Unfortunately, I would agree with your that in some rare instances there's former military personnel claiming things (especially awards/decorations, and jobs e.g. special forces) that are purely false.

It's interesting that at least two wing commanders, that I'm aware of (NH & MA) appear to wear the CAP polo shirt quite often.   I as well as others that are retired military, have nothing to prove to any CAP member.  The decision makers at the unit, group, and wing levels have the appropriate documented information about us.

Again, I see NO reason for CAP members to be flying on commercial airlines in AF type uniforms, whether permitted by regulation or not.  Personally, I believe it is a 'rare' instance when this occurs and as others in the postings on this thread subject have indicated, some headquarters have actually stated not to wear uniforms while flying commercially.   Frankly though I see no reason why we couldn't fly commercially with the polo shirts on ;)   To all on the list, again a reminder we are in the Civil Air Patrol :angel:     
 
RM
     

spaatzmom

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 03:23:12 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2011, 10:42:43 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 25, 2011, 09:00:18 PMI think there's enough distinction on the cadet side so there won't be any wanna bee factor

A cadet officer wearing the 3-button service coat is virtually indistinguishable from regular USAF officers, especially to the general public not in CAP or the military.

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 25, 2011, 09:00:18 PM
There's been senior members who have been playing this "wanna bee" game for some time and know EXACTLY what I am talking about

Please define.
Any senior member who violates the 1 hour uniform wear rule (CAPM 39-1, table 1-1, Wear of the CAP Uniform), especially any USAF type uniform (wonder why that rule ever got put on the books ???).
Any senior member who flies on a commercial airline flight in a CAP USAF type uniform.   There's NO reason they need to be flying in uniform whatsoever.  The regulation never meant the transit time to include flying in commercial aircraft for many hours.
Frankly, I'd be laughing my butt off IF I ever got on a commercial airline and observed a CAP senior member in an AF type uniform on the same flight >:D   I might even be temped to tell the stewardess/steward to pay special to that guy or girl since it was likely a "cult" spin off of the real CAP >:D :angel:

Most adult senior member in CAP are NOT flying commercial in CAP AF type uniforms.  Most cadets are not flying commercial in CAP AF type uniforms. I don't think you will find ANYONE flying commercial to any cadet special activity/competition wearing a CAP uniform.  Just the comfort factor alone on a flight over 1 hour long would be a good logical reason.   Also why would ANYONE want to call attention to themselves.   When I was in the AF, we basically didn't call attention to ourselves by wearing our uniforms while traveling on commercial aircraft flights.   It's just plain good common sense personal security to NOT be in any uniform.   However, the "wanna bees" are definitely going to be in uniform, no doubt about it ::).
RM   

With this one statement, you are wrong.  NHGA requires you to fly in uniform if traveling commercial.  Inspection of uniform and deportment takes place the second the cadet departs the plane.  Such grand statements are what has little to no place here unless you personally have been to each and every activity across the nation.  Apparel when traveling is at the order of the individual director and they need not give a reason to the general membership.  Rigidly narrow minded one sided declarations of ones interpretation of regulations is a bane of many forums such as this.

NIN

Quote from: jimmydeanno on June 26, 2011, 05:16:09 AM
They claimed military service and droned on and on about how CAP members were all wannabes.  Then, after a few months and a few hundred posts, the stories didn't match up, and they were exposed as phonies, faking their military service to a bunch of CAP members, on the internet.  The very epitome of a wannabe.

Yeah, that about hit it on the head.

Its not always the fantastical claims (although, thats usually their undoing in the end) that twig my spidey sense.  No, the ones that catch me are the ones that go on at length about poseurs and honor and such, and you're like "Uh, wow, dude, thats not really what I'm getting hung up on here.."

We had one over at CadetStuff 2-3 years back (2008, as I recall) who had been RCAC working with a northern-tier CAP wing from some years earlier.  Except: at some point he'd gotten the boot from the RCAC and started telling people he was really a CF officer.   And his view on poseurs was pretty, uh, radical (like suggesting various violent and uncomfortable things be done to them). To the point where once it came out the guy was a total poseur himself, it was like "Kettle, this is Pot. Black, over."

But when he sat across the table from me and started telling me about all the medical problems he was having after he and his JTF2 squaddies discovered a "dirty bomb" in a cave in Afghanistan, well, lets just say that things started unraveling pretty fast after that.

Back to the subject: There are times when flying in CAP uniform is warranted. It is infrequent, but it does happen.  The two times I ever flew to a CAP activity, a region conference in 1993 and a cadet staff selection in 2005, there was sufficient time built into our itineraries to get to where we were going and change.  Sometimes, however, depending on activity schedules, airline accommodations, or your ability to skate out of work to make the "better" flight,  thats not much of an option. 

(I've flown in ACUs for the USAC, which is authorized by our regs and encouraged, and generally when I do so its either because I'm literally hitting the ground from the airport straight to whatever event we're doing, or I've got all my crap along for annual training and the one set of civvies I need for AT fits better my bags than another set of ACUs, an extra pair of boots, etc.)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 01:39:36 PM
To all on the list, again a reminder we are in the Civil BunchaFakeWannabes Air Patrol :angel:     

There, fixed that for ya.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

jimmydeanno

#53
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on June 26, 2011, 05:16:09 AM
They claimed military service and droned on and on about how CAP members were all wannabes.  Then, after a few months and a few hundred posts, the stories didn't match up, and they were exposed as phonies, faking their military service to a bunch of CAP members, on the internet.  The very epitome of a wannabe.
Really -- so cite what wing(s) that happen in ???.  Who was that on this list (screen name)???   
...   

This one for example: http://captalk.net/index.php?action=profile;area=summary;u=353


Mod edit: Quote fail fix
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

HGjunkie

#54
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 03:23:12 AM
I don't think you will find ANYONE flying commercial to any cadet special activity/competition wearing a CAP uniform.   

National Honor Guard Academy requires it.

Aaaand spaatzmom beat me to it. But it still holds, some activities require showing up and leaving in uniform.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

Persona non grata

RM continues to insult members on this forum by his negative remarks about CAP members wearing AF uniforms. All I can say is MST & and it aint on the 101 card.
Rock, Flag & Eagle.........

jimmydeanno

Quote from: eaker.cadet on June 26, 2011, 03:01:51 PM
RM continues to insult members on this forum by his negative remarks about CAP members wearing AF uniforms. All I can say is MST & and it aint on the 101 card.

Mountain Standard Time?  :o
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Майор Хаткевич

I don't know about HGA these days, but back in 2005, we were originally told Blues, and then were told to come in civilian clothes. We got our inspection once we settled into the college dorms.

We left in civilian attire as well:


spaatzmom

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 26, 2011, 03:44:27 PM
I don't know about HGA these days, but back in 2005, we were originally told Blues, and then were told to come in civilian clothes. We got our inspection once we settled into the college dorms.

We left in civilian attire as well:



2005 was the first year at McDaniel and things were changed the following year, like only using BWI for the airport and immediate inspection.  Too little time to do it all on arrival at the college with all the other things that need to be done when you have over 125 cadets mostly white hats attending.  I remember you there.

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: spaatzmom on June 26, 2011, 02:01:33 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 26, 2011, 03:23:12 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2011, 10:42:43 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 25, 2011, 09:00:18 PMI think there's enough distinction on the cadet side so there won't be any wanna bee factor


Any senior member who violates the 1 hour uniform wear rule (CAPM 39-1, table 1-1, Wear of the CAP Uniform), especially any USAF type uniform (wonder why that rule ever got put on the books ???).
Any senior member who flies on a commercial airline flight in a CAP USAF type uniform.   There's NO reason they need to be flying in uniform whatsoever.  The regulation never meant the transit time to include flying in commercial aircraft for many hours.
Frankly, I'd be laughing my butt off IF I ever got on a commercial airline and observed a CAP senior member in an AF type uniform on the same flight >:D   I might even be temped to tell the stewardess/steward to pay special to that guy or girl since it was likely a "cult" spin off of the real CAP >:D :angel:

Most adult senior member in CAP are NOT flying commercial in CAP AF type uniforms.  Most cadets are not flying commercial in CAP AF type uniforms. I don't think you will find ANYONE flying commercial to any cadet special activity/competition wearing a CAP uniform.  Just the comfort factor alone on a flight over 1 hour long would be a good logical reason.   Also why would ANYONE want to call attention to themselves.   When I was in the AF, we basically didn't call attention to ourselves by wearing our uniforms while traveling on commercial aircraft flights.   It's just plain good common sense personal security to NOT be in any uniform.   However, the "wanna bees" are definitely going to be in uniform, no doubt about it ::).
RM   

With this one statement, you are wrong.  NHGA requires you to fly in uniform if traveling commercial.  Inspection of uniform and deportment takes place the second the cadet departs the plane.  Such grand statements are what has little to no place here unless you personally have been to each and every activity across the nation.  Apparel when traveling is at the order of the individual director and they need not give a reason to the general membership.  Rigidly narrow minded one sided declarations of ones interpretation of regulations is a bane of many forums such as this.
Funny I got very curious about your statement above, so I went to the 2011 page for the National Honor Guard Academy.  See:  http://ncsas.com/index.cfm/honor_guard_academy?show=career_fair&careerFairID=6

There's absolutely nothing on that website for CY 2011 that says a cadet (or senior) has to travel & arrive in uniform.  In fact on the transportation form/instructions it tells the attendee to look for someone in a CAP uniform and also a cadet may drive to the academy with permission.  Also on the uniform requirements, it would lead me to believe that no one is flying/driving in their uniforms. 


So being nice, I don't know what year you are talking about BUT regardless there has to be "common sense" applied and I think most members (except the wanna bees after attention) aren't wearing CAP uniforms while flying commercially. 
RM