Regulations to get "maksman", "sharpshooter", ect.?

[cap235629]

How are we doing on coming up with some language for Col Lee to take to the national board? It would be nice to get this fixed!

I was asked by Ned to work on this and the proposed regulation and list of changes to current regulations is in his hands..

Now the waiting begins

[shlebz]

So.....in the interveining years many squadrons just went by the spirit of the regulation and kept on authorising the new NRA badge...but a few months ago NHQ told us to stop doing that until they figure it out.

So...as of now....you can do weapons training....but no badges.

if you email NHQ asking if you can wear the badge on your uniform they tell you that you still can...

[Eclipse]

Who?

History has shown that if you send enough messages to NHQ you can get someone to OK just about everything.

Absent an ICL, the person you heard from may be an SME, even the decision maker, but that doesn't change the reg.
It's in force, as written, until properly changed (or at least contradicted by two other docs purporting to be the sole authority).

[shlebz]

Who?

History has shown that if you send enough messages to NHQ you can get someone to OK just about everything.

Absent an ICL, the person you heard from may be an SME, even the decision maker, but that doesn't change the reg.
It's in force, as written, until properly changed (or at least contradicted by two other docs purporting to be the sole authority).

SUSAN P. PARKER
CAP National Headquarters
105 S. Hansell Street
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6332
Phone:  877-227-9142 extenstion 212
FAX:  334-953-4262
Email:SPARKER@capnhq.gov

[EMT-83]

Why would a cadet be contacting NHQ?

[jimmydeanno]

Why would a cadet be contacting NHQ?

Why not?  They are dues paying members just as you are, and have every right to the services NHQ provides.  I'm sure most cadets have better questions than the "what time is the field trip my squadron is hosting" questions (from seniors) I had the opportunity to field.

[Eclipse]

Who?

History has shown that if you send enough messages to NHQ you can get someone to OK just about everything.

Absent an ICL, the person you heard from may be an SME, even the decision maker, but that doesn't change the reg.
It's in force, as written, until properly changed (or at least contradicted by two other docs purporting to be the sole authority).

SUSAN P. PARKER
CAP National Headquarters
105 S. Hansell Street
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6332
Phone:  877-227-9142 extenstion 212
FAX:  334-953-4262
Email:SPARKER@capnhq.gov

Yes - exactly my point. 

Ms. Parker is a respected member of NHQ staff and someone who keeps things moving.  She is considered an SME on a number of subjects, however as she is not in the chain, nor on the board or the NEC, she doesn't not have the authority to make these decisions.  She may well be sitting next to the person who makes the decision and would ultimately recommend to the appropriate bodies that things change, but until those changes are made, things are what they are.

Second, unless you actually cite the specific question asked and the specific answer given, it's hard for use to even know if what she told you is applicable.  Simply copying her contact info from the NHQ website isn't exactly an ICL.

[EMT-83]

Why would a cadet be contacting NHQ?

Why not?  They are dues paying members just as you are, and have every right to the services NHQ provides.  I'm sure most cadets have better questions than the "what time is the field trip my squadron is hosting" questions (from seniors) I had the opportunity to field.

All problems should be resolved at the lowest possible level. The org chart isn't there for wallpaper.

If all 61,000 members contacted NHQ to answer questions, nothing would get done.

[Eclipse]

All problems should be resolved at the lowest possible level. The org chart isn't there for wallpaper.

If all 61,000 members contacted NHQ to answer questions, nothing would get done.

I have to agree.

The proper procedure here is to forward the question up the chain to the DCP and have that person either go up further or call
NHQ, then issue a position paper back to the wing.  That way the answer covers the entire wing, at a minimum.

This is also the kind of thing a CAC is actually charged with.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The only time I've contacted NHQ as a cadet was in regards to membership info such as missing ID card or some such. Even then, it was first a call to the Squadron leadership, then a call to NHQ.

[Hawk200]

Back in my first few years in CAP, I've asked Susie Parker about a few things. A few times, I would ask for a specific reference in a pub on something, and she could not provide such a reference to substantiate the answer. Something to keep in mind.

[shlebz]

All problems should be resolved at the lowest possible level. The org chart isn't there for wallpaper.

If all 61,000 members contacted NHQ to answer questions, nothing would get done.

I have to agree.

The proper procedure here is to forward the question up the chain to the DCP and have that person either go up further or call
NHQ, then issue a position paper back to the wing.  That way the answer covers the entire wing, at a minimum.

This is also the kind of thing a CAC is actually charged with.

i attempted contacting NHQ about the badge, because everyone i asked about it gave me mixed results so i was right back where i started before i asked anybody anyway. I actually got the idea of emailing NHQ from my previous C/CC who said he has done it multiple times about questions involving military awards. He was wreceivedieved her email from in the first place.

Second, unless you actually cite the specific question asked and the specific answer given, it's hard for use to even know if what she told you is applicable.  Simply copying her contact info from the NHQ website isn't exactly an ICL.

The reason i only put her contact info on my last post because you asked who it was I emailed, not what was in my email. I would be more than willing to forward you the emareceivedieved from her if you just ask :]

[jimmydeanno]

I'm not saying that cadet timmy should call to see what the proper placement of his wing patch is. 

But to ask why cadets are calling NHQ at all, only shows the value we (seniors) put on them as members of CAP.  If you, a senior, can just pick up the phone and use whatever services are available at NHQ, cadets, as dues paying members of Civil Air Patrol, may also use those services. 

There are things that obviously go through the chain of command.  But any reason that a senior member can pick up the phone and call NHQ to get questions answered are just as valid if the member is a cadet.

[Eclipse]

The reason i only put her contact info on my last post because you asked who it was I emailed, not what was in my email. I would be more than willing to forward you the emareceivedieved from her if you just ask

If you think it will help your case, post it here, however if it was purely Ms. Parker's opinion, absent the citation of an applicable regulation, then it won't likely change any minds.

As Hawk200 says, NHQ staffers are generally more than willing to try and help an offer an opinion, but in more than a few cases, what they respond, or post on the KB, is later show to be incorrect, premature, or simply outside their authority.  I've personally sent a few corrections to the KB myself.

How this generally works is someone has a question not clearly stated in a reg, and they fish around to find an answer that suits their personal reality, and they move on.  As long as that is acceptable to your local chain, good on 'ye, but that doesn't make it correct.

[shlebz]

so i actually can't wear the badge on my uniform then?

[EMT-83]

I'm not saying that cadet timmy should call to see what the proper placement of his wing patch is. 

But to ask why cadets are calling NHQ at all, only shows the value we (seniors) put on them as members of CAP.  If you, a senior, can just pick up the phone and use whatever services are available at NHQ, cadets, as dues paying members of Civil Air Patrol, may also use those services. 

There are things that obviously go through the chain of command.  But any reason that a senior member can pick up the phone and call NHQ to get questions answered are just as valid if the member is a cadet.

It's not just cadets. Senior members should also be using the chain of command rather than picking up the phone to call NHQ.

There's a very good chance that the CP, PD, ES, or whatever position, will have been asked the question before, and will have ready access to the correct answer.

We have 50 members in our squadron. I can count on one hand the number of folks who should be calling NHQ for anything.

[Eclipse]

so i actually can't wear the badge on my uniform then?

No.  The badges awarded for the current NRA program are not approved for wear on the CAP uniform.

[Eclipse]

I'm not saying that cadet timmy should call to see what the proper placement of his wing patch is. 

But to ask why cadets are calling NHQ at all, only shows the value we (seniors) put on them as members of CAP.  If you, a senior, can just pick up the phone and use whatever services are available at NHQ, cadets, as dues paying members of Civil Air Patrol, may also use those services. 

There are things that obviously go through the chain of command.  But any reason that a senior member can pick up the phone and call NHQ to get questions answered are just as valid if the member is a cadet.

It's not just cadets. Senior members should also be using the chain of command rather than picking up the phone to call NHQ.

There's a very good chance that the CP, PD, ES, or whatever position, will have been asked the question before, and will have ready access to the correct answer.

We have 50 members in our squadron. I can count on one hand the number of folks who should be calling NHQ for anything.

Exactly correct.  In most cases it is something simple and people can't or won't read, in which case that's the whole point of downstream staff.

In cases involving policy or interpretation, only commanders can make those decisions, and should be involving their next in line to insure the answers are as complete as possible, and account for the largest AOR possible (respective to the question).  You don't want people in different units saying they got different answers when they called as if NHQ was an AT&T Call Center.  It defeats the purpose of having echelons of management, both from a coherence of message standpoint and a simple manpower at NHQ view.

[shlebz]

so i actually can't wear the badge on my uniform then?

No.  The badges awarded for the current NRA program are not approved for wear on the CAP uniform.

ok, well thanks for actually clarifying it for me. In that case i'm with the group of people who believe that cadets should be able to haha especially since cadets who earned the title marksman..shartshooter..etc in the past were eligable to wear the badge of the program back then.

[Eclipse]

I think most here agree with that, and there are several in this thread working to fix things, but until then, rules is rules.