So why do we have height and weight standards?

[JohnKachenmeister]

The training for body fat taping takes about 30 minutes.  It is not rocket science.  The equipment is a scale and a tape measure.  Also a calculator unless you are a math wizard.

[PHall]

In my AFRES unit the First Sergeant or the  Orderly Room NCOIC did the taping along with the weighing.
IIRC they went through a 15 minute certificacation class every year and the was about it.

No reason in the world why CAP can't do this, unless you don't trust the Squadron Commanders...

[RiverAux]

Keep in mind that the AF doesn't trust its airmen enough to allow them to do this and have hired civilians to oversee this (well, at least the PT program and I assume the weight program, but could be wrong). 

[Eclipse]

Or we could all get over ourselves and do what similar organizations have done and just be allowed to wear the uniform as a thank-you
for our service.

"Hey, thanks for all the time you're giving Uncle Sam gratis.  We really appreciate it.  Given the choice we'd prefer it if you were
in better shape, but we recognize you're a volunteer and have a lot on your plate besides CAP, so it's your call.  Besides, no one
who knows what the uniforms of the various branches looks like would ever confuse you with someone in the military, and it wouldn't
really matter if they did, anyway.

Make sure you always wear it proudly and correctly, respect it and those who came before you, in both the volunteer and active variants,
and if anyone gives you any grief about being wearing it, just let us know and we'll straighten them out.

And again, thanks for your service...".

Regards, the Air Force

[JohnKachenmeister]

That is about as likely as me getting THIS letter:

Kack:

I saw your picture on Facebook, and you look like a neat guy.  I have split from my husband, and am feeling a little lonely right now.  Maybe you could give me a call and we could hook up for dinner and drinks sometime soon?


Love,


Christie Brinkley.

PS:  My treat!

[NIN]

That is about as likely as me getting THIS letter:

Kack:

I saw your picture on Facebook, and you look like a neat guy.  I have split from my husband, and am feeling a little lonely right now.  Maybe you could give me a call and we could hook up for dinner and drinks sometime soon?


Love,


Christie Brinkley.

PS:  My treat!

Hey, buddy, line forms behind me.

[DakRadz]

Keep in mind that the AF doesn't trust its airmen enough to allow them to do this and have hired civilians to oversee this (well, at least the PT program and I assume the weight program, but could be wrong).

That's perfect, sir.

We are civilians.

(And I'm sure our AD and Reserve members don't mind being told they were saved from yet another CAP hat to wear)

[Ned]

( . . .)  unless you don't trust the Squadron Commanders...

You mean the same squadron commanders enforcing the height weight restrictions already in place?

Those guys?

Shouldn't be a problem, then.

[Eclipse]

Integrity is integrity.  Where it is lacking you address is directly.

You don't scale your program or write your regs assuming people will cheat them or ignore them.

[JokerMafia248]

So, we are agreed that the only reason we have this height and weight regulation is appearances. There is no valid job-related requirement that any of us meet this regulation except that it makes the Air Force feel good about itself.

So then, with what the Secretary of Defense and the JCS are doing now is eliminating discrimination in the military against gays. They have decided that there is no valid reason to restrict gays from serving in uniform, and so they are being allowed to serve openly. What remains then is discrimination against fat people in CAP.

Sorry, but it needed to be said.

[JokerMafia248]

Or we could all get over ourselves and do what similar organizations have done and just be allowed to wear the uniform as a thank-you
for our service.

"Hey, thanks for all the time you're giving Uncle Sam gratis.  We really appreciate it.  Given the choice we'd prefer it if you were
in better shape, but we recognize you're a volunteer and have a lot on your plate besides CAP, so it's your call.  Besides, no one
who knows what the uniforms of the various branches looks like would ever confuse you with someone in the military, and it wouldn't
really matter if they did, anyway.

Make sure you always wear it proudly and correctly, respect it and those who came before you, in both the volunteer and active variants,
and if anyone gives you any grief about being wearing it, just let us know and we'll straighten them out.

And again, thanks for your service...".

Regards, the Air Force

+1

[jeders]

So then, with what the Secretary of Defense and the JCS are doing now is eliminating discrimination in the military against gays. They have decided that there is no valid reason to restrict gays from serving in uniform, and so they are being allowed to serve openly. What remains then is discrimination against fat people in CAP.

Sorry, but it needed to be said.

It's been said, it didn't really need to be said again, and quite frankly it's simply a red herring.

So, we are agreed that the only reason we have this height and weight regulation is appearances. There is no valid job-related requirement that any of us meet this regulation except that it makes the Air Force feel good about itself.

I wouldn't agree with that. Yes, as the CAP regs and AFIs are written, the main reason is to make us look good in the AF uniform. But I've met too many pilots who get winded walking 50 ft from the FBO to the aircraft. I've met GT and UDF guys who can't walk more than a few hundred feet before they have to slow down.

I think instead of trying to find a way for our HSO to integrate with the AF in a way similar to Chaplains, the National HS guys should be working on a real health and fitness program to go along with the height/weight requirements.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

So, we are agreed that the only reason we have this height and weight regulation is appearances. There is no valid job-related requirement that any of us meet this regulation except that it makes the Air Force feel good about itself.

So then, with what the Secretary of Defense and the JCS are doing now is eliminating discrimination in the military against gays. They have decided that there is no valid reason to restrict gays from serving in uniform, and so they are being allowed to serve openly. What remains then is discrimination against fat people in CAP.

Sorry, but it needed to be said.

In CAP I would say that there is more to the height and weight regulation than just appearances. Adults that are in the height/weight standards are generally rather active and healthy. That is one of the things promoted in the cadet program, staying active and healthy. I would think that also putting a PT standard to SMs would help to promote that mindset of being active and healthy to the cadets.

I don't know of anyone who discriminates against people who are overweight in CAP. Anyone who does, doesn't deserve to be in CAP.

I definitely think that anyone doing anything ES related (yes this includes comms and air ops and even those who are just GES) should have to be able to complete a standardized PT test.

[a2capt]

Gee... and I open up CNN.com and ... right there on the home page:

Why obesity is a national security threat

Congress is passionately debating whether open homosexuality is compatible with military service. But even as this particular culture war seems headed to resolution, a new emerging cultural divide is tearing at military efficiency: obesity and overweight.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

National Security Threat??? Maybe, but I would have to say it is a threat the the nation as a whole. Obesity kills, and it doesn't just kill you, it kills your family emotionally.

[Eclipse]

So then, with what the Secretary of Defense and the JCS are doing now is eliminating discrimination in the military against gays. They have decided that there is no valid reason to restrict gays from serving in uniform, and so they are being allowed to serve openly. What remains then is discrimination against fat people in CAP.

Sorry, but it needed to be said.

No, it didn't.  Not remotely the same thing.

[SARDOC]

I definitely think that anyone doing anything ES related (yes this includes comms and air ops and even those who are just GES) should have to be able to complete a standardized PT test.

That would just eliminate members with disabilities from participating with even sedentary activities in Emergency Services.  I think to the point that might hinder our mission.  I think members should just be realistic about their capabilities and work to their level as opposed to restricting them from ES completely

[Spaceman3750]

So, we are agreed that the only reason we have this height and weight regulation is appearances. There is no valid job-related requirement that any of us meet this regulation except that it makes the Air Force feel good about itself.

So then, with what the Secretary of Defense and the JCS are doing now is eliminating discrimination in the military against gays. They have decided that there is no valid reason to restrict gays from serving in uniform, and so they are being allowed to serve openly. What remains then is discrimination against fat people in CAP.

Sorry, but it needed to be said.

I definitely think that anyone doing anything ES related (yes this includes comms and air ops and even those who are just GES) should have to be able to complete a standardized PT test.

I fail to see how one's ability to haul their butt around a track in n period of time affects their ability to operate a radio, look out the window of an airplane, drive a van, or run a mission. I would even go so far to argue that someone's mile time/number of pushups/some other asinine physical assessment doesn't have any impact on their ability to work or lead a ground team.

[DakRadz]

I definitely think that anyone doing anything ES related (yes this includes comms and air ops and even those who are just GES) should have to be able to complete a standardized PT test.

That would just eliminate members with disabilities from participating with even sedentary activities in Emergency Services.  I think to the point that might hinder our mission.  I think members should just be realistic about their capabilities and work to their level as opposed to restricting them from ES completely

I know of two members (and this is in the NE Georgia area, so within a 100 miles of each other)- one was blind, and the other nearly so to the point he can't drive at night.

Both were considered the best Comms guys that anyone had ever met.

Keep in mind- they were unrelated and within 100 miles of each other. I'm not pulling from across the country- think of the examples I could come up with if I did go nation-wide.

GES? Heck, I'm GES (and could pass the PT test, but still). Things like GES (though only as a stepping stone, I hope), Comms- that's the very sector of ES that those with disabilities gravitate towards.

I feel GT is debatable (though I don't have the experience to get involved), but the purely non-field jobs? Don't hack away at those who serve everywhere they can as best they can.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I don't know of anyone who discriminates against people who are overweight in CAP. Anyone who does, doesn't deserve to be in CAP.

I definitely think that anyone doing anything ES related (yes this includes comms and air ops and even those who are just GES) should have to be able to complete a standardized PT test.

Wow! I don't know where to start on this one. I think you just suggested you don't deserve to be in CAP.

IC, PSC, OSC, SO, AOBD, GBD, CUL, MRO, PIO, MSA etc. Just a few ES positions that don't necessarily involve a lot of physical effort.

But in your world I guess I should hand in my 101 card.