So why do we have height and weight standards?

[JokerMafia248]

Hello all, long time lurker here, first new thread.

So, why exactly does CAP have height and weight standards? In the military, it is clear that we need soldiers that are physically fit in order to perform their jobs. But in CAP, we have no such physical fitness requirement. There is no requirement to be able to do any particular physical activity in order to serve in CAP - so why should there be any height and weight standards for uniform wear? Seems like an arbitrary rule that ends up being used to embarrass CAP members for no good reason.

I think it's time to eliminate this rule. Comments?

Ed

[JokerMafia248]

Further - it would be OK for a paraplegic to wear a green uniform if he/she met the weight standards - even though that person could not perform many physical activities. But, if the same person were overweight, he/she would have to wear the blue. Makes no sense and just makes life hard on a lot of members for no good reason.

[NCRblues]

Not trying to be a smart A%$...but, because the Air Force says so, and its their uniforms. So, its one of those, if you want to play in our uniform you will do as we say. Sorry, just how it is.

[Pylon]

As NCRBlues stated, there are certain things that Civil Air Patrol does not have control over.  The Air Force uniforms are one of them.  The Air Force gives us the permission to wear them and stipulates the terms of their wear. 


There used to be no military-style alternative for members who did not meet the Air Force grooming standard (the grey-white combo with grade epaulets and ribbons is new within the last decade or so, and the short-lived blue-white combo even newer).  The alternative field uniform is the same thing.  It used to be members who didn't meet weight and grooming standards couldn't wear their CAP grade on their BDU collars -- they had to wear CAP cutouts only (in the last decade, the Blue BDU has been introduced). 


In other words, Civil Air Patrol has worked on what is under our control to provide equally functional and appropriate uniforms to recognize our volunteers who don't meet the Air Force weight/grooming standards.  Is it unwieldy to have a doubled-up closet of uniforms?  A bit, yep.  But unless CAP can come to a different arrangement with the Air Force over their uniforms, it may stay that way for the foreseeable future.

[Dad2-4]

Exactly. The USAF want's CAP personnel to maintain a somewhat professional look while we wear their uniforms. At least we got rid of some of the really horrible uniform pieces of the past.

[Ron1319]

I've lost about 30 lbs to meet weight standards and I'm working on another 20 to be able to look good in a CAP uniform again.  It seems like a win-win to me, and a far cry from making life harder for me.  I saw a CAP senior member at the CAWG Cadet Programs Conference last year with their service coat unbuttoned because it was too tight.  There was simply no way they met weight standards.  I think we should have more weigh-ins.  The only embarrassment I'd see would be for someone knowingly violating the rules and getting caught.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The AF came up with the rule that "Overweight" members could not wear the uniform in the early 1980's.  The white and gray uniform came out in the 70's for people that can't cut their hair or shave.  How CAP was to keep overweight people out of the AF blues was left up to CAP. 

CAP took the AF basic training entry weight scale from the USAF, added 10 percent, and made that the Law of CAPM 39-1.

There are some inherent weaknesses to the CAP plan, mostly because of poor planning.  There is no provision for body fat determination, for example.  In the US Army, in my 40's, I could weigh as much as 223 after a body fat analysis, but according to CAP, now that I'm in my 60's, I have to stay under 200, and that's with the clothing allowance.

The other weakness is CAP's chart, like the AF's, ends at 50 years of age.  People retire from the AF then, so the AF chart did not address the Geriatric Squad.

Frankly, I hear people bemoaning the lack of weight enforcement here sometimes, but the poor planning of 39-1 is tempered by judicious enforcement.  The result is that while some "Borderline" cases cross the border with impunity, the grossly fat are dissuaded from wearing the AF blues.

Bottom line:  The USAF is happy, and all is right with the world.

[RiverAux]

Sadly, its all about appearances -- we don't even have physical fitness standards for activities where they would clearly be appropriate and in my view absolutely necessary - primarily ground SAR.

I don't think our current situation is a result of poor planning -- we just haven't updated it since the time when height/weight charts were the best thing available. 

[Rescue826]

I'm 452 lbs,  I still wear my blues,   and I look [darn] good in them!

[JohnKachenmeister]

Yeah... but you're 9 feet tall!   

[Rescue826]

No...im 4' 6"

[manfredvonrichthofen]

PT should definitely be incorporated into  the SM side, at least for those who wish do operate as ES personnel. Even flight crew should do PT.

[SARDOC]

in the interest of full disclosure I'm out of those standards by about 15 pounds so I wear the alternate uniform... I don't even possess an AF style.   Those are the regs and our members should display the values of our organization and follow the regulations.  That being said in my personal opinion I think our organization should have One Uniform because it is after all a UNIFORM and by definition should represent us as a whole but not divide us based on physical features.   Besides...when Air Force members exceed the approved body weight do they have to wear an alternate until they get back into compliance?  No, I've seen plenty of Air National Guard members much larger then I am.     

[RiverAux]

Besides...when Air Force members exceed the approved body weight do they have to wear an alternate until they get back into compliance?  No, I've seen plenty of Air National Guard members much larger then I am.     

True, but they are required to get back in compliance or else....if you're suggesting that CAP go to all AF-style uniform but have some sort of weight management program to allow for short term periods of non-compliance before being kicked out of the organization I suspect the AF would accept that.  Of course that doesn't account for our folks who like beards and/or long hair, which aren't allowed at all in the AF, even on a short term basis.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

True, but they are required to get back in compliance or else....if you're suggesting that CAP go to all AF-style uniform but have some sort of weight management program to allow for short term periods of non-compliance before being kicked out of the organization I suspect the AF would accept that.  Of course that doesn't account for our folks who like beards and/or long hair, which aren't allowed at all in the AF, even on a short term basis.

Not to mention, half of our strength is in members who are overweight or like their beards/long hair. If we were to tell them get slim and a haircut or else, we would loose a large portion of our members, members who are very valuable. I can't stand people who think there shouldn't be anyone overweight or fuzzy. These members are too valuable to let go just because of standards of appearance for a uniform. We in CAP have such a diversity of members and knowledge because we allow members to be varied in appearance. I choose to keep the haircut and weight standards because they make me feel good. I have had a high and tight since I was 14. I kept in PT and kept myself strong and slender because I knew I wanted to be Infantry. Now I keep it because I know I feel good that way. I weigh more now than I ever have, 192, I am 5'11" and I have never weighed over 170, and I feel horrible because I have let myself go from how I want to feel and look.

It doesn't matter what you look like, as long as you feel good. It doesn't matter what uniform you wear, so long as you can do the tasks you want to do for CAP. Stay in the uniform you can wear according to regulations. If you meet height and weight and you keep your hair tight you can still wear the alternative uniforms if you wish. It isn't all about the uniform, it is mainly about the way you do your job and how you feel doing it.

[RADIOMAN015]

The AF Regulation implementing the public law currently states that the AF determines the requirements for wearing the AF type uniform by CAP civilian volunteers.  Note that the weight/height requirement is a "modified" weight allowing about 10% more.

Personally, as long as the uniform is a "good fit" I see no reason why civilian volunteer members couldn't wear those uniforms even if well above the standard.  The key issue is the uniforms need to fit well and not be tight anywhere.  As far as hair length and facial hair I have no issue with that also.

It really cost the volunteer member significantly more to wear AF type uniforms.  IF you are going to be in compliance that means buying the appropriate hats as well as outer wear coats, etc.

BTW the so called "alternative" uniforms are also worn by senior members who just don't want to spend the money on all the AF type uniforms OR want to the flexibility of determining when to go to the barber shop, etc :angel:
RM     

[DakRadz]

Glass half-empty: CAP wants to set me apart and differentiate me because I am overweight/long-haired/Gene Simmons.

Glass half-full: CAP managed to work around USAF to ensure I could still wear a uniform and gave me a guide to my attire.

Glass: Quit talking about my figure.

Water: I'm really bi-polar. Some days I'm six liters, some days half-a-dozen.

[nesagsar]

I am not currently a member but I intend to rejoin and I am happy to wear the blue BDU once in a while even though I am within height and weight standards. I think that too many organizations out there are too keen to adopt the woodland pattern and it makes us look like wannabees to our customers in emergency services. The past 3 search and rescue organizations I have been involved with used navy, black, and desert tan battle dress for field ops.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?  Over.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I am not currently a member but I intend to rejoin and I am happy to wear the blue BDU once in a while even though I am within height and weight standards. I think that too many organizations out there are too keen to adopt the woodland pattern and it makes us look like wannabees to our customers in emergency services. The past 3 search and rescue organizations I have been involved with used navy, black, and desert tan battle dress for field ops.

Or, maybe the customers appreciate an element of the Air Force, with its reputation for professionalism and safety, coming in to provide light-plane air support to their search operation.