Where to find white on blue patches?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That is understood about badge groups. However your current MOS does get precedence. There is, or at least was when I was in, a set regulation that your current MOS skill badge (if your MOS has one) is to be worn above all other badges. If you are an Airborne or Air Assault instructor your ABN or AASLT badge takes precedence. That is according to AR 670-1 as of sometime in 2006. I am downloading the new AR 670-1 now.

[Hawk200]

Military and CGAUX awards are intermixed in the order of precedence.  Weird isn't it?

Seems wierd and annoying. Of course, it's annoying when I have to sit down and put together a rack of both Army and Air Force ribbons, especially considering that for an Army uniform they place different precedences on ribbons.

At least when it comes to adding CAP ones to a rack, they're all in one place, no figuring out where they would go in the rack.

That is very interesting that CGAUX intermingles, I think it is the right thing to do.

CGAUX probably has hard categories on it's ribbons. We really don't. If we wanted to mix, we would have to designate what specifically is what. We have things that seem like equivalent concepts (such as our Commander's Commendation Award being an equivalent concept to an Army/Navy/Air Force Commendation Medal), but are those considered in the same manner? We would have to establish that.

[Hawk200]

That is understood about badge groups. However your current MOS does get precedence. There is, or at least was when I was in, a set regulation that your current MOS skill badge (if your MOS has one) is to be worn above all other badges. If you are an Airborne or Air Assault instructor your ABN or AASLT badge takes precedence. That is according to AR 670-1 as of sometime in 2006. I am downloading the new AR 670-1 now.

The latest 670-1 I've seen is Feb 2005. I just downloaded the latest one from the G-1 website, and it also shows that date.

I've never seen the MOS priority policy. I know the Air Force encourages the current AFSC badge be worn and worn highest, but never seen the equivalent in the Army. If you have a pub later than 2005, send me a link, I need the most current one too.

I've never heard that stipulation for instructors, but I'd be willing to bet that it's a local "practice" rather than a legitimate policy. A lot of people make up their own rules when it comes to their own area of concentration.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf

Is where I found the newest one.

On a second look, Combat badges CIB and CMB and CAB are to take precedence over all others. But there is nothing that says the CIB has precedence over the CMB or CAB. Other than that it doesn't say which group is worn where, except groups 3 4 and 5 are the only ones that can be worn on the pocket flap.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Military and CGAUX awards are intermixed in the order of precedence.  Weird isn't it?

Seems wierd and annoying. Of course, it's annoying when I have to sit down and put together a rack of both Army and Air Force ribbons, especially considering that for an Army uniform they place different precedences on ribbons.

At least when it comes to adding CAP ones to a rack, they're all in one place, no figuring out where they would go in the rack.

That is very interesting that CGAUX intermingles, I think it is the right thing to do.

CGAUX probably has hard categories on it's ribbons. We really don't. If we wanted to mix, we would have to designate what specifically is what. We have things that seem like equivalent concepts (such as our Commander's Commendation Award being an equivalent concept to an Army/Navy/Air Force Commendation Medal), but are those considered in the same manner? We would have to establish that.

Wasn't there at one time a stipulation that military ribbons would be worn on the CAP uniform in order of when they were earned, not by order of precendence? Seems a 39-1 that's even older than the one we're supposed to abide by said that.

Why the he77 are we asking Susie Parker to make a call that CAPM 39-1 is supposed to make? There's something really wrong when we bypass regulation and go to One. Person. Who. Makes. The. Rules.

[BillB]

Suzie Parker doesn't make the rules. She is knowledgable on CAP Regulations and what the "rules" are. She also attends every National Board meeting and NEC meeting to know what the changes to regulations are and the intent of the National Board.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

We're asking her to be on-the-spot to make the call on gray areas sometimes. That can't possibly be her job. She may make all the NB meetings, but so does your wing commander and mine -- and they have the command authority to tell us what does and doesn't fly.

And if it is Susie's job, then why doesn't she write a new CAPM 39-1 so we all are on the same page, and to make her life easier?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

It doesn't matter who's job it is to keep the 39-1 updated, it just needs to be remade all together. Current photos, current everything. Put everything in black and white so we all know what is going on. Is there any word of a new 39-1?

[SarDragon]

The basic text regarding military ribbon wear is essentially the same in all the versions of CAPM 39-1 I have (1968-2005), with a little clarifying text about JROTC/ROTC ribbons.

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence. See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.
a. Three JROTC/ROTC ribbons awarded by military departments may be worn following all other ribbons (except foreign ribbons) while the member concerned is participating in the JROTC/ROTC program. When the member is no longer participating in the JROTC/ROTC program, JROTC/ROTC ribbons will be removed.

Some time in the '80s, the military ribbon precedence table was added, subject to the above.

[PHall]

I think the amount of work involved in Phil's AF badges far exceeds the amount involved in his CAP badges.

YMMV.

Not relevant to the discussion and insulting to fellow members, especially characterized as such.

"I think" - my opinion. YMMV - subject to discussion.

I was talking about Phil's comment specifically, that he wears his RM badges, and not his CAP badges. I was making what I thought to be a reasonable guess as to his motivation for doing so.

Phil?

Well, let's see here Eclipse, between CAP and the Air Force I'm entitled to wear a total of five badges/wings.
I only wear two at a time and it's my choice which two to wear.
And since I had to do a whole lot more to earn and keep my Air Force Wings/badge, I wear those.

[SarDragon]

Thanks, Phil. Thought I had it right. 

[DakRadz]

However JROTC CAP and CGAUX all wear RM ribbons above their own[lots of snipping]

ROTC may do this (I'm almost positive they do, I just don't know for certain), but in my experience in JROTC, RM ribbons are unauthorized for cadets to wear. In fact, I've seen literature saying that RM devices/ribbons of ANY sort on JROTC uniforms is illegal.

[Hawk200]

ROTC may do this (I'm almost positive they do, I just don't know for certain), but in my experience in JROTC, RM ribbons are unauthorized for cadets to wear. In fact, I've seen literature saying that RM devices/ribbons of ANY sort on JROTC uniforms is illegal.

I would suspect that JROTC members that have earned any military ribbons/badges is almost unheard of. Not saying impossible, but extremely unlikely.

[DakRadz]

ROTC may do this (I'm almost positive they do, I just don't know for certain), but in my experience in JROTC, RM ribbons are unauthorized for cadets to wear. In fact, I've seen literature saying that RM devices/ribbons of ANY sort on JROTC uniforms is illegal.

I would suspect that JROTC members that have earned any military ribbons/badges is almost unheard of. Not saying impossible, but extremely unlikely.

Very true, sir; apparently the Reserves cadets were enough of an issue that they plainly spelled out no RM anything on JROTC uniforms. But other than those who complete a Reserve Basic between 11th and 12th grade, none would/should have earned RM ribbons and such.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

However JROTC CAP and CGAUX all wear RM ribbons above their own[lots of snipping]

ROTC may do this (I'm almost positive they do, I just don't know for certain), but in my experience in JROTC, RM ribbons are unauthorized for cadets to wear. In fact, I've seen literature saying that RM devices/ribbons of ANY sort on JROTC uniforms is illegal.

JROTC instructors are the ones that would wear the RM ribbons, High schoolers with the exception of those seniors who did the split entry option  wouldn't have the chance to get RM ribbons.

CAP cadets can't wear any RM ribbons or badges period. This being because you can't be a cadet while RM.

[tsrup]

However JROTC CAP and CGAUX all wear RM ribbons above their own[lots of snipping]

ROTC may do this (I'm almost positive they do, I just don't know for certain), but in my experience in JROTC, RM ribbons are unauthorized for cadets to wear. In fact, I've seen literature saying that RM devices/ribbons of ANY sort on JROTC uniforms is illegal.

JROTC instructors are the ones that would wear the RM ribbons, High schoolers with the exception of those seniors who did the split entry option  wouldn't have the chance to get RM ribbons.

CAP cadets can't wear any RM ribbons or badges period. This being because you can't be a cadet while RM.

Not true, a Cadet can also be in the Reserves/National Guard

edit: found apropriate reg.  39-2 sec. 2-2

[manfredvonrichthofen]

See Paragraph 2-5 (quoted below) of  CAPR 39-2 Civil Air Patrol Membership  16 JUNE 2004 INCLUDES CHANGE 3, 1 OCTOBER 2009 .

2-5. Upon Joining the Armed Forces. Cadets who join any branch of the active duty Armed Forces (this does not include military service academies) will furnish NHQ CAP/LMMR written notification along with a CAPF 12 and fingerprint card, at which time they will be automatically transferred to senior membership status.

No they can't be cadets on active duty, but they can as reservists. Which I don't get at all. If you can't be married as a cadet then how in the world can you be in the military.

That being said if a cadet went to training at say... Fort Dix, to prepare to deploy, they would then not be able to be cadets any more regardless of being in the Reserves or NG.

[tsrup]

The point I'm making is that a Cadet in fact can wear RM badges and ribbons that he/she has earned while in the National Guard/Reserves. 


I think the reasoning for extending Cadet membership to members of the Reserves/Guard is that many of them are full time students while serving. 

[DakRadz]

The point I'm making is that a Cadet in fact can wear RM badges and ribbons that he/she has earned while in the National Guard/Reserves. 


I think the reasoning for extending Cadet membership to members of the Reserves/Guard is that many of them are full time students while serving.

Sir, I must go to bed- but check 39-1. I'm fairly certain that CAP also has a "no RM items on cadets" clause/policy.

Goodnight and happy hunting!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Quite a few active duty are full time students as well.