CAP Decorations

[lordmonar]

Well I was thinking.....If I Were God...and wanted to take on the CAP decorations....what would it look like?

1.  CAP Medal of Valor (Replaces the SMoV)
2.  CAP Cross (replaces the BMoV)
2.  CAP Distinguished Service Medal (awarded by the BoG for service to CAP)
3.  CAP (for work at the National Level)
4.  CAP Superior Service Medal (For work at regional level)
5.  CAP Legion Of Merit (for long and distinguished service to CAP)
6.  CAP Meritorious Service Medal (for work at wing level)
7.  CAP Life Saving Medal
8.  CAP Find Medal
9.  Cap Aerial Achievement Award (combines the ES/CD/HLS/DR/OR medals for air crew)
10.  CAP Ground Achievement Award (Combines the ES/CD/DR/HLS medal for ground teams)
11.  CAP Mission Base Achievement Award (Combines the ES/CD/DR/HLS medal for mission base personnel)
12.  CAP Commendation Medal (for work at Group Level)
13.  CAP Achievement Medal (for work at unit level).
14.  BoG Unit Citation (awarded by Bog for doing some really top notch work)
15.  CAP Meritorious Unit Award
16. CAP Outstanding Unit Award
17. CAP Quality Unit Award (awarded yearly if you meet basic unit quality factors)
17. CAP Aerospace Education Award (Yeager)
18.  Wilson Medal
19. CAP Professional Development Award (replaces leadership, Garber, Loening)
20. Spaatz Medal
21. Cadet Professional Development Ribbon
22. CAP Campaign Medals (these can be special awards created for those who participated in special operations (Columbia search, Katrina, Fosset Search, etc). They can be either the same ribbon or make special ones for each operations...worn in the order received).
23. Longevity Ribbon (replaces red service Medal)
24. Recruiting Ribbon (combines both the cadet and senior recruiter ribbon)
25. IACE
26. NCSA Ribbon (combines ALL NCSAs into a single ribbon).
27. Cadet Marksman Ribbon
28. Encampment Ribbon
29.  Community Service Ribbon
30.  CAP Basic Training Ribbon (Replaces Curry for cadets and Membership for Seniors (prior cadets would wear a star when they complete level I).

Okay....

First off.....this does not solve any nonexistent problem...that is don't say "why do we need to change anything". 

This does a a couple of things for us.
1.  It ties our level of awards with the USAF award system....so they will match up. (this is not to say they are same thing...so don't go there!  The CAP cross is not equivalent to the AF Cross!).
2.  It ties the awards with a specific level of expected achievement......i.e. the top level of service award medals would be for those doing work at the top level!  Just like the USAF you still have discretion of awarding the appropriate award no matter what echelon the individual works at.
3. It eliminate a lot of medals/ribbons that we already get things for (cadets get both a ribbon and a rank....so give them a ribbon with stars on it to replace all those other ribbons....same story for the SMs).
4. It cleans up some of the weirdness of some of the ribbons..(a find is a find is a find....does not/should not matter if you got a find on foot as a GTM, in the air as a MS or working the mission base as MRO.
5. It also cleans up the DR/CD/ES/HLS weirdness.   If you fly 100 mission hours....I want to give you something to put on your uniform....I don't care if it was 100 ES mission or 100 CD mission...it was 100 mission. (don't yell at me about the numbers...I just threw something out there).
6.  It allows us to reward all out operational people for their contribution...not just air crew and GT.

Just a thought.

[HGjunkie]

Well I was thinking.....If I Were God...and wanted to take on the CAP decorations....what would it look like?

1.  CAP Medal of Valor (Replaces the SMoV)
2.  CAP Cross (replaces the BMoV)
2.  CAP Distinguished Service Medal (awarded by the BoG for service to CAP)
3.  CAP (for work at the National Level)
4.  CAP Superior Service Medal (For work at regional level)
5.  CAP Legion Of Merit (for long and distinguished service to CAP)
6.  CAP Meritorious Service Medal (for work at wing level)
7.  CAP Life Saving Medal
8.  CAP Find Medal
9.  Cap Aerial Achievement Award (combines the ES/CD/HLS/DR/OR medals for air crew)
10.  CAP Ground Achievement Award (Combines the ES/CD/DR/HLS medal for ground teams)
11.  CAP Mission Base Achievement Award (Combines the ES/CD/DR/HLS medal for mission base personnel)
12.  CAP Commendation Medal (for work at Group Level)
13.  CAP Achievement Medal (for work at unit level).
14.  BoG Unit Citation (awarded by Bog for doing some really top notch work)
15.  CAP Meritorious Unit Award
16. CAP Outstanding Unit Award
17. CAP Quality Unit Award (awarded yearly if you meet basic unit quality factors)
17. CAP Aerospace Education Award (Yeager)
18.  Wilson Medal
19. CAP Professional Development Award (replaces leadership, Garber, Loening)
20. Spaatz Medal
21. Cadet Professional Development Ribbon
22. CAP Campaign Medals (these can be special awards created for those who participated in special operations (Columbia search, Katrina, Fosset Search, etc). They can be either the same ribbon or make special ones for each operations...worn in the order received).
23. Longevity Ribbon (replaces red service Medal)
24. Recruiting Ribbon (combines both the cadet and senior recruiter ribbon)
25. IACE
26. NCSA Ribbon (combines ALL NCSAs into a single ribbon).
27. Cadet Marksman Ribbon
28. Encampment Ribbon
29.  Community Service Ribbon
30.  CAP Basic Training Ribbon (Replaces Curry for cadets and Membership for Seniors (prior cadets would wear a star when they complete level I).

Okay....

First off.....this does not solve any nonexistent problem...that is don't say "why do we need to change anything". 

This does a a couple of things for us.
1.  It ties our level of awards with the USAF award system....so they will match up. (this is not to say they are same thing...so don't go there!  The CAP cross is not equivalent to the AF Cross!).
2.  It ties the awards with a specific level of expected achievement......i.e. the top level of service award medals would be for those doing work at the top level!  Just like the USAF you still have discretion of awarding the appropriate award no matter what echelon the individual works at.
3. It eliminate a lot of medals/ribbons that we already get things for (cadets get both a ribbon and a rank....so give them a ribbon with stars on it to replace all those other ribbons....same story for the SMs).
4. It cleans up some of the weirdness of some of the ribbons..(a find is a find is a find....does not/should not matter if you got a find on foot as a GTM, in the air as a MS or working the mission base as MRO.
5. It also cleans up the DR/CD/ES/HLS weirdness.   If you fly 100 mission hours....I want to give you something to put on your uniform....I don't care if it was 100 ES mission or 100 CD mission...it was 100 mission. (don't yell at me about the numbers...I just threw something out there).
6.  It allows us to reward all out operational people for their contribution...not just air crew and GT.

Just a thought.

I made a picture of that one time, it sparked a firestorm, refer to page four of http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10231.60

[arajca]

Well I was thinking.....If I Were God...and wanted to take on the CAP decorations....what would it look like?

1.  CAP Medal of Valor (Replaces the SMoV)
2.  CAP Cross (replaces the BMoV)
2.   CAP Distinguished Service Medal (awarded by the BoG for service to CAP)
3.  CAP Exceptional Service Medal(for work at the National Level)
...
17. CAP Quality Unit Award (awarded yearly if you meet basic unit quality factors)
17. CAP Aerospace Education Award (Yeager)
...
27. Cadet Marksman Ribbon
28. Encampment Ribbon
29.  Community Service Ribbon
30.  CAP Basic Training Ribbon (Replaces Curry for cadets and Membership for Seniors (prior cadets would wear a star when they complete level I).

Okay....

First off.....this does not solve any nonexistent problem...that is don't say "why do we need to change anything". 

This does a a couple of things for us.
1.  It ties our level of awards with the USAF award system....so they will match up. (this is not to say they are same thing...so don't go there!  The CAP cross is not equivalent to the AF Cross!).
2.  It ties the awards with a specific level of expected achievement......i.e. the top level of service award medals would be for those doing work at the top level!  Just like the USAF you still have discretion of awarding the appropriate award no matter what echelon the individual works at.
3. It eliminate a lot of medals/ribbons that we already get things for (cadets get both a ribbon and a rank....so give them a ribbon with stars on it to replace all those other ribbons....same story for the SMs).
4. It cleans up some of the weirdness of some of the ribbons..(a find is a find is a find....does not/should not matter if you got a find on foot as a GTM, in the air as a MS or working the mission base as MRO.
5. It also cleans up the DR/CD/ES/HLS weirdness.   If you fly 100 mission hours....I want to give you something to put on your uniform....I don't care if it was 100 ES mission or 100 CD mission...it was 100 mission. (don't yell at me about the numbers...I just threw something out there).
6.  It allows us to reward all out operational people for their contribution...not just air crew and GT.

Just a thought.

I noted a couple of inconsistancies.

Why not just have a Marksmanship ribbon authorized for all members, not just cadets?

Would you reassign current ribbons or go with a whole new crop?

Finally,

Just a thought.

Bad habit. You know better. 

[lordmonar]

I would go with a markmanship ribbon for everyone.....just did not know if any SM's care about it.

As for grandfathering......that would be problematical....but I could think up a few ways of transitining from the old ribbons to the new.

[arajca]

I may play around with it. I have a long weekend coming up...

[PhoenixRisen]

I like what you've got, but on the Cadet ribbons, I'd like to leave the milestone awards in.  Just the milestone awards (as well as the Cadet / Senior Basic Training ribbon), no achievement ribbons.  I think positive reinforcement through bling is alright, to an extent, and one ribbon at each milestone is perfect.  If this system were put in place, it would work as our current system does.  You only get the milestone / training ribbon(s), and when you turn SM, all but the highest award (plus training ribbon) come off.

I've said it before, but I think it waters down the value of awards / rank (take your pick) when you award one ribbon per rank.  One ribbon per milestone is, IMO, the "perfect balance".

[MIKE]

Rather than attach it again: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1695.msg26806#msg26806

[lordmonar]

I like what you've got, but on the Cadet ribbons, I'd like to leave the milestone awards in.  Just the milestone awards (as well as the Cadet / Senior Basic Training ribbon), no achievement ribbons.  I think positive reinforcement through bling is alright, to an extent, and one ribbon at each milestone is perfect.  If this system were put in place, it would work as our current system does.  You only get the milestone / training ribbon(s), and when you turn SM, all but the highest award (plus training ribbon) come off.

I've said it before, but I think it waters down the value of awards / rank (take your pick) when you award one ribbon per rank.  One ribbon per milestone is, IMO, the "perfect balance".

I see what you are thinking...and agree with it to a point.

I was thinking with just a single Cadet Program ribbon (and the Spaatz) you would not have to take anything off once you became a SM.  You get a pip for each achievement/milestone....so an Earheart would have his basic ribbon, his CPD ribbon with a bunch of silver pips...nothing to take off.  If a member only got Wright Brothers he would have the ribbon with one pip.

That balances out both sides between too much bling and making a ribbon not count for anything once you are an SM.  Earn a ribbon...wear it for life....and you don't look like a Banana Republic Dictator.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was going to say about how the ribbons matter to new cadets (I know they did to me, though the stripes mattered more), but I actually like the idea of clasps to signify advancement.

[DakRadz]

I was going to say about how the ribbons matter to new cadets (I know they did to me, though the striped mattered more), but I actually like the idea of clasps to signify advancement.

On top of that, the ribbons represent a historical flight figure. It's a little piece of history being kept alive. That's a nice tradition- and cadets are going to end up looking like Cuban generals anyway, so...
Also, the ribbons do slow down majorly once you become a cadet officer- I think this may be NHQ saying "New cadets get lots of ribbons because that really is a driving factor for many, at first. Now, you're a bona-fide leader and C/officer- less ribbons, get over it."

[PhoenixRisen]

I see what you are thinking...and agree with it to a point.

I was thinking with just a single Cadet Program ribbon (and the Spaatz) you would not have to take anything off once you became a SM.  You get a pip for each achievement/milestone....so an Earheart would have his basic ribbon, his CPD ribbon with a bunch of silver pips...nothing to take off.  If a member only got Wright Brothers he would have the ribbon with one pip.

That balances out both sides between too much bling and making a ribbon not count for anything once you are an SM.  Earn a ribbon...wear it for life....and you don't look like a Banana Republic Dictator.

I agree with the concept, and like that it simplifies the transition from cadet to SM, but my reasoning for keeping the milestones as separate awards versus your outlined method is the prestige (if that's the right word to use) of each individual milestone award / phase completion.  As mentioned previously, I feel that my way, IMO, is the perfect "balance" between "too much" and "too little".  I just see the "one ribbon w/ multiple attachments" as "too little".  There's a difference (most likely a big one, to the bling-oriented cadets) between adding a star / triangle / etc. to a ribbon, multiple times, versus actually receiving a separate award, but as always, YMMV.

On top of that, the ribbons represent a historical flight figure. It's a little piece of history being kept alive. That's a nice tradition- and cadets are going to end up looking like Cuban generals anyway, so...

Just because you take away the ribbon doesn't mean you take away the historical figure.  Under what I outlined before, the achievements would still be structured and completed as they are today, each still named and focused on a specific historical figure.  You just wouldn't have the ribbon associated with it.  As for looking like a [third-world country] dictator, the achievement ribbons (obviously) make up the bulk of a Cadet's ribbons... remove those from the equation, and you remove (for the most part) the similarity to a third-world dictator.

[DakRadz]

Alright, Major and C/Capt have convinced me.

I was just thinking that giving a cadet one ribbon, period, until encampment or community service... That's a little bare. Cadets DO largely care about bling at first- generally grow out of that.

I would say keep Wright, Mitchell, Earhart, and Eaker as well.

So new cadets could, within 3 months, have- CAP Basic Training (remember this is a
Curry OR Level 1 ribbon equivalent), CPD Ribbon, Community Service/Recruiting/Marksmanship (one or more). That's a good collection of ribbons, and they would be more prestigious.

The current system... I don't feel like the ribbons/awards mean as much, because I got a new one with every promotion- it was overkill. Heck, I think CAP cured me of my ribbon-lust out of a sheer overwhelming barrage.

Now though, instead of trying to promote just to the next rank, I've noticed I'm setting my sites on the Earhart, so I can plan my attack upon the Eaker when I get there, and then the Spaatz. Strategic, tactical, and prestigious! That's the ribbon-y way!

[Майор Хаткевич]

After a certain NCSA and a certain Wing Activity I was infected with Ribbonitis. I wanted to look like the hardkewl kids with 30 ribbons, at the time only having some 12.

Unfortunately, having asked to be put in for the AFSA Ribbon and being told *by my new DCC, so we didn't know each other that well yet* to write my accomplishments that qualify for it so he can do the proper paperwork backfired. For one, I received the AFA Ribbon - an ugly bluish ribbon with red AFA letters on it. Second, I hated the fact that I actually got the grenades to ask for an award. It just left a bad taste in my mouth all around. After getting that ribbon, March 2006, I believe,  the only new ribbons that I added were Mitchell, Earhart and Find - a total of 15 ribbons which was respectable, and not overkill.

To this day, I still laugh at the cadets who plan their careers around getting the AFSA and the VFW NCO, turn officer and go for the AFA and VFW Officer ribbons.

[Flying Pig]

I cant believe I am being sucked in.....resist resist ahhhhhhhhhh

OK.  here I go.

CAP Achievement Medal awarded with a silver propeller device.  Making it an Aerial Achievement Medal.  One medal, two uses.  I dont know what the criteria would be.  It could be vague or very specific regarding aerial achievement.  I know we have Find ribbons with the prop device but in the rare case someone would do something extraordinary during a flight (not dangerous or unsafe) but mastery of the aircraft, dealing with an significant inflight emergency, you get the idea.

[lordmonar]

We can certainly add a CAP Air Medal for singular achievements in airmanship....I.e. pulling off a deadstick landing, some god awful amount of CAP Flying Hours, Making a find through some sort of difficult situation.

We can also expand the criteria I had for the CAP air/ground/Mission base achievement medals....I was just looking at the "20 real missions" award....but it could be expanded to be awarded for distinctive achievement during a real mission.


Welcome to the dark side of "just talking about bling"...

[Flying Pig]

You know what.... I feel...... good

[arajca]

Initial playing around:

Bold titles indicate new award needs ribbon selected. I'll be updating it when I get access to my ribbon charts...

Criteria are essentiall what lordmonar put forth.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[DakRadz]

Initial playing around:

Bold titles indicate new award needs ribbon selected. I'll be updating it when I get access to my ribbon charts...

Criteria are essentiall what lordmonar put forth.

I like it. A few things:
No Eaker on there at all.
No CAC ribbon- this is the only permanent indicator of CAC service, so I would want to keep this before the shoulder cord.
lordmonar proposed combining the two recruiting ribbons into one, not the Cadet and SM separation. Looked closer at the labeling of the chart.
Is the Professional Development ribbon you listed the Cadet version?
OUTSTANDING, SIR! The Honorable Military Service Ribbon is a very good touch. Really rounds out the entire chart

These are a combination of suggestions for both the ribbon chart and lordmonar's proposal.

[arajca]

The PD ribbon is for Seniors. Cadets have the Milestones.

The Eaker is a consolation prize for those who couldn't quite make it to Spaatz. (Full discloser - I fall into that category. By the time I had time to work on the Spaatz, it was a week before my 21st birthday).

Unfortunately, the no one on the NB supported a miltary service award, but I'll keep trying. I would have liked to hear the discussion on it, if there was any.

[DakRadz]

The PD ribbon is for Seniors. Cadets have the Milestones.

The Eaker is a consolation prize for those who couldn't quite make it to Spaatz. (Full discloser - I fall into that category. By the time I had time to work on the Spaatz, it was a week before my 21st birthday).

Unfortunately, the no one on the NB supported a miltary service award, but I'll keep trying. I would have liked to hear the discussion on it, if there was any.

I was wondering about the PD ribbon, as lordmonar proposed one for cadets to replace the ribbon-for-every-enlisted-rank. I'm tracking now.

So you propose eliminating the Eaker? Just wondering.

I did see that no one supported the HMSA, but I say kudos to you for including it in the chart in optimism and confidence