Beret confusion

[Krapenhoeffer]

Here is a True Legend about the Blue Beret.

Once upon a time, there was a group that called themselves the "Special Service Corps."

This group was unnecessary, and engaged in hazing. So National put the axe to them.

The SSC's participation at Oshkosh became a NCSA, with no beret.

People complained, so the Beret was reauthorized.

SOME very loud cadets return from NBB with an "elite mentality."

Certain cadets on this thread still buy into this nonsense, and are attacking anybody who dares get in-between them and their precious Beret.

As a WI Wing member, I thank all the personnel who come up to our wonderful state and help out. I hope you enjoyed our cheese, cows and wonderful scenery.

However, the "Beret Mentality" which certain cadets are exhibiting right now (including one without a ES rating [GES doesn't count in my book]), is what makes me despise the hat of horrors.

[Cadet 1stLt]

I honestly can't believe that there would be this much argument over a hat. I still stand by my idea that the beret is nothing more than a hat, but its the Cross on the Flash that symbolizes a Blue Beret.

I'm not in the least disrespectful to anyone, cadet or senior, but it's just a hat. It is a piece of felt and wool that you wear on your head. It serves the same purpose as a patrol cap or a ballcap. You wear it on your head. That's it.

And like Ive said before, Its very unfortunate that a few bad apples will spoil it for the rest of us. Those who say that  we didn't "earn" our berets, please, I'd ask you to apply for National Blue Beret next year, go through the training, the pre-operational, the actual operation, and then come home, and tell me the same thing.

We aren't Elite, We aren't "special", we aren't "gods among cadets", and the beret is nothing more than another hat.


Cadets think its cool, that's fantastic.

Seniors think its bull that we get a beret, thats fine with me too.

But like I said, If you think its ridiculous that we get a hat, then please apply for NBB, and go through the training, go through the operation, and tell me that you have the same ideals that you have now.

Very Respectfully,

C/1st Lt Le
Echo Flight
National Blue Beret 2010

No one here is bashing the program, or saying it's not worthwhile, or difficult. But is it so worthwhile and difficult that it requires a special piece of headgear that two ranking cadets officers in this thread have stated is important for them to be reminded of their time there?

Another senior cadet NCO immediately went on the hardcore defensive when I posted something that did not agree with his view, and that cadet hasn't even been selected to attend.

I guess the problem is, as with any specialized program, is people start to drink the Koolaid and then have trouble seeing the outsiders perceptive. One cadet mentioned in response to a post about how little CAP was shown in a documentary about the Air Venture event that their liaison officer told them how important they were. That's his job.

Again, no one is attacking the program, or it's participates, and no one is belittling it. But when bad attitudes about the program are coming from people who haven't even attended it yet, people start to question things.

I understand where you are coming from, and from what you are saying, its a double edged sword if you think about it. No ones bashing the program, just the headgear. People that have never attended NBB will have the same opinions more or less, and people that have gone through it have the same opinion on it. As for the worthwhileness (dont know if that is a word), yes it was worth while, and though many people might disagree that its not a difficult activity, are wrong. Ridiculous weather conditions, sleep deprivation, and some other stuff. So yes, I believe it was worth while

[JayT]

I think that was one of the most mature post to come out of this thread yet!

[N Harmon]

I have seen senior members get bent out of shape and be like "who the #$(( does that cadet think he is, something special? I think not. Someone should bring him down a step or two"... just at the mere sight of a cadet wearing a beret. In fact, I have seen this reaction WAY more than I have seen a cadet in a beret act behave in a way that deserved such ridicule.

That is not to say I have not seen the occasional beret who did deserve some talking to. But it is nowhere near as frequent as you would expect given the knee jerk reactions of some senior members.

Like, why do so many senior members feel it is their duty in life to go and check the accomplishments of some cadets with comments and harassment like "you feel special for going to an airshow"?  And it is not just NBB either. I see seniors who LOVE showing up cadets with ranger tabs..."See cadet, just because you went to Hawk mountain doesn't mean you know everything"..."Uh, Sir, I realize that. Only Expert Rangers know everything". (LOL, okay)

You know, sometimes I think it is us senior members who need to chill out and relax, and learn to encourage cadets participating in activities that are pretty advanced and pretty spectacular given their age groups, not ours.

[flyboy53]

Personal preferences aside, I don't understand why people consider a beret as such a valued symbol of completing such an exciting national activity. CAP personnel attend PJOC and NESA, where the training is considerably more intensive, and don't earn berets.

Isn't the patch, badge, ribbon, etc, enough?

Why is it necessary to promote elitism when the true concept that should have come from that event is teamwork and mentoring others.

Ever wonder what that air of elitism does when the individual returns to the unit? Activity aside, does the elitism destroy a unit. From personal experience, I saw what Hawk Mountain did to a unit and I'm long enough in this program to remember when graduates of Hawk Mountain earned an "airborne ranger" patch that caused just as much consternation.

I once wore a beret as a security policeman. Funny, I preferred my fatigue (what it was called then) or organizational baseball cap at the time. The beret, though cool, was always such high maintenance. We wore enameled command crests at the time that had to be regularly replaced because pins broke or the emblem would get shattered. That didn't include fading, dirt, pilling, sweat and sunburned noses....or that stupid lace in the back that had to be tucked in if it wasn't tied correctly.

In the end, the beret and the shield now just collect dust. My qualification badge and the expert marksman ribbon mean a little more.

In the end, however, all the posts on this subject are meaningless if NHQ remains vague on the subject and continues to allow it awarded.

[indygreg]

I'd have to agree that some cadets that have been to NBB have an elitist attitude. I suspect that these cadets had that attitude before they went.   However, some of the best cadet leaders I have ever seen have been there as well.  They don't have to tell everyone how great they are, or act like they are some kind of Special Forces super cool ninja commando.  Just the way that they lead by example without acting like a R. Lee Ermey wanna-be I find to be very impressive.

To me it's the same as the cadets whose GT gear is straight from Blackhawk!, Ranger Joe's, or US Cav.  They have to show off all of their "cool" stuff so people will think they are important, but are barely capable of doing the job.  I'm much more impressed with the cadet whose stuff comes from Wal-mart, but listens well, knows what they are supposed to do, and understands that it is not about them.

[arajca]

My expereince with cadets (and some seniors) who've attend NBB and HM has been they come back with serious attitude problems. They insisted on wearing the blue cow pie even though the wing commander had banned it (which the wing cc can do) "because they earned it". They wore the ranger tabs (before the NB authorized it) because they were part of an elite team. When the unit commander inform them them otherwise, many of these clowns left the unit and/or CAP because, as one cadidiot put it, the unit wouldn't recognize their superiority.

Now, this is not just one or two or a few, it is 90+% of the ones I've met. I suspect many of the seniors on this board have had similar experiences.

Even though is has been reported that NBB and HM tell their participants that they are not elite or special, the caving in by the NB to allow the special recognition for these two activities, reinforces the notion that they are considered elite.

[C-150]

The "moral of the story" is attitude. That is what myself and some others tried to get across in the beginning of this. The clothes don't make the man....the man makes the clothes. Sorry ladies...that is just an old saying and intended to leave you out. I work in LE and I have seen some people go through rookie school and come out cocky and arrogant and usually make lousy officers. The ones that come out with I am proud to wear the badge and I am glad I made seem to do far better in their careers and usually gain the public trust better. It is the attitude behind what you do. We have all at some point had an over zealous teacher in school or been stopped by an LEO with a cocky attitude or had a ladder climber for a boss. These people will almost always fail in the long run. Due mainly to the attitude. Do the job wear the uniform and any symbol that goes with it, but do so in a humble way. Cadets do need to listen and learn from Seniors this is very true. But I also think we as seniors fail the cadets when we don't "hear" what they are saying.....myself included.

[a2capt]

Gee, and here I just looked at the whole thing like ..another two week activity/school/whatever - like dare I say it, Encampment, RSC, NSC, etc - and you attend, complete 80% of the curriculum (essentially, don't get kicked out) and you get a device that says you did it.

Granted, the training applies toward ES ratings, I'm seeing the beret argument is about as touchy as the boonie hat. To me, they're all just hats. You get a badge after two weeks of NBB, you get a badge after several days of other focused activities too. You get a ribbon after just over a week of Encampment.

Do you wear your encampment hat again after the event? Usually not. I would presume the same thing for the blue beret.

That some people choose to do so, means .. perhaps it means they just don't get it. Uniform changes and options tend to come with rank, and assignment, but not so much with awards. You wear a shoulder cord when your on a color guard, honor guard, etc. You get additional options of hat types when you reach officer level, or field grade officer level.

But if someone showed up wearing a beret to my unit, you bet I'd question it. Where is it in the regulation that is a proper uniform item? Because as far as I know, baring any niche amendments, attachments, authorizations, letters, other regionally only available items, whatever - it says

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear. Berets provided at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY.

and I interpret that to mean that any beret ever used in CAP must be blue only, and that the beret is used at that activity only. After that it becomes a shelf device like a trophy or plaque. Now that also leads to "well, we want a beret for our activity".. and of course the chickens will fly and scratch because the people in WI will say "thats ours", when lends credibility to the argument - the crest is the symbol, the cow pie is just a hat. So it would be called the PCR Blue Berets, or the CAWG Blue Berets, .. if an activity were put together around such a theme and it would have it's own award/pin/device/thing.

Hence, what I think also needs to be done is refer to the whole thing as the National Blue Beret so that should it ever get used at another level there is distinction. I suspect it will not happen though.

If a cadet comes back with an attitude, then thats going to be dealt with at the unit. If the unit allows it to fester, then the whole program is mis-understood at that level and everyone needs to step back and re-evaluate what is going on. Likewise, if there is even a hint of this being implied during the NBB activity, the same applies there. It's a two week activity, in line with other CAP activities of it's type, sponsored on the national level, that being it draws from the whole organization. .. and thats it.

Two weeks of focused, semi-situation specific training combined with morale and camaraderie that can be applied in the field outside of the AirVenture event just as well.

[Cadet 1stLt]

I believe this thread has been blown way out of porportion. All this fighting and argument over a hat. Im sorry that people have had such bad experiences with Blue Berets, but conflicts in life is inevitable.

The Beret is nothing more than a hat. It doesn't make me better at ES than the guy next to me. It doesn't make me a better leader than the person next to me. It doesn't make me elite, It doesn't make me superior, It doesn't make me any more important than the person next to me, and I will defend this statement.

If you disagree with me, and I know people will disagree with me, the so be it. That is your opinion. If you don't like the Beret, then simply dont wear it. Simple as that. If you have a cadet that is wearing the beret and has attended NBB, Please before you condemn him, Please take the time to Ask him or her, why they are wearing that Cross on the Flash, And listen to what they are saying.

[Eclipse]

For those of you reading this thread and trying to figure out what the big deal is.

The problem is not the hat, its the attitude.

Any activity which generates a "you can't make me..." response from a subordinate (cadet or senior), means we have failed as a program, not just an activity.

[arajca]

Let's see how this suggestion would fly at NBB:

Change the activity patch from the eight-ball with beret to a St Albain's Cross on a modified heater shield (aka AF shield) and ditch the beret. You'd have the 'important' part and should remove the contentious part. Also change the name of the activity from National Blue Beret to something else.

If the beret is truly an unimportant part of the activity, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Here's a few gems post NBB:

The defense was Squadron Commander Authorization. I wonder who asked for it in the first place.




The rest of these are INWG




And look! A double whammy! NBB Hat + Ranger Grade! + CAP Metal Grade! Awesome!









Take note, this is their "Winter" exercise...also note the Captain

[Cadet 1stLt]

Sir,

Those are in NO WAY Blue Berets From NBB. I Guarentee you that. That is the GTM Beret, Which looks ridiculous in my opinion. The NBB executive staff even told us, The Blue Beret is only authorized with the BDU Uniform, and the only authorized Crest is the ST. Alban's Cross

[Майор Хаткевич]

Sir,

Those are in NO WAY Blue Berets From NBB. I Guarentee you that. That is the GTM Beret, Which looks ridiculous in my opinion. The NBB executive staff even told us, The Blue Beret is only authorized with the BDU Uniform, and the only authorized Crest is the ST. Alban's Cross

Those cadets have been to NBB. Notice the SM Captain with your crest on his Beret. Reality bubble burst moment there?

[Cadet 1stLt]

What about the Cadets? Are you sure they are from NBB too?

[Майор Хаткевич]

What about the Cadets? Are you sure they are from NBB too?

A number of them also had pictures with the crest/at NBB. Besides, since the beret is only authorized by NBB, you really think that Captain would just encourage this behavior?

[Cadet 1stLt]

Yeah, Im pretty much done with this thread. I understand the hostility towards Berets like myself, and Honestly, I find it ridiculous that people would hate us this much. I'm sorry for whatever we did.

You hate my Beret, thats fine, but I will still wear mine proud

[Eclipse]

Interesting to note that the beret isn't the only place that these cadets lack attention to detail in their uniforms.

[tsrup]

What about the Cadets? Are you sure they are from NBB too?

A number of them also had pictures with the crest/at NBB. Besides, since the beret is only authorized by NBB, you really think that Captain would just encourage this behavior?

he is wearing ABDU's...
Im guessing he's never bothered himself with the regs...